Examples of buffs you can make to havoc that will increase their performance in mythic+ but will not impact raid too much:
The only change needed for m+ imo is to add either a 30% or 40% Cycle of Hatred proc on Blade Dance when the talent is selected.
Hard disagree. Havoc need a stronger AoE profile. Your suggestion for CoH is good though and I agree with that one.
It’s rough for people who want to stay NF that the interactions between double leggos and between tier sets and covenant abilities is pushing us towards Venthyr now. But it was rough for those of us who wanted to play Venthyr that we were pushed into playing NF for so long.
Does either of you think a CoH proc on blade dance might make DH too OP? I can easily keep brand up continuously on ST playing CoH, and it’s 50/50 whether I can keep it up continuously even if I don’t remove blade dance from my rotation. It depends how lucky I am with CoH procs. I can already keep up with our 4-piece survival hunter on big pulls. If I was able to keep brand on everything until it died…
well…i’m doing 30k on dummies during meta without tier set 260ilvl for ~2mins, i suppose that changes with luck, but you should be able to keep it up for arround 1minute easily.
blade during coh would give us…what? 1-1.5k extra?
my issue is that from the current longs we are lacking heavily in most dungeons except theater.
Logs are heavily subjective, pull dependant and currently not representative of our class as most are still raiding, true.
but it still sucks most havocs you see in top 100 dps by key are behind 3-5k except 2 keys where they are 1k-2.5k behind only.
imo that difference is too high, sure some classes should have their niche if they lack something else but currently they’re not lacking anything.
how many targets?
the question is how much more damage does brand do if you can keep it up continuously compared to letting it drop off after the first eyebeam extension?
and the related question is how much more damage do you do if you’re not either desyncing brand and eyebeam or holding one or the other to sync them?
I think the main problem with Venthyr is that AoE is close to non-existing without meta. I’d say that applying the PvP talent to halve the duration of meta and the cooldown would already be perfect (even without venthyr), but that also means that you’ll be blasting with a near constant 25~40k dps with CA.
And with the 4-piece CD reduction on top of that? I don’t have it, but I’ve seen people say it reduces the CD by anything between 30 and 60 seconds. Meta once a minute? Sure, I’d take that, but it would be utterly broken as Venthyr.
well the answer is simple, not enough
but that’s not even the issue, i personally wouldn’t want our dmg to depend on a 3+min cd.
that why i would change something else , meta is decent as it is.
imo either remove cap in eyebeam till 5 targets and either buff it so it does more dmg on more targets or buff the whole lvl30 tier to do more dmg on more targets, nothing that would break us on ST.
Well yeah, obviously the 4set piece would be OP with that, but it would be something nice for 10.0 to redesign imo
That isn’t an answer. It’s meaningless without numbers.
I’m currently doing 2-3k less overall with 2-piece than a survival hunter with 4-piece. Since people are complaining that survival is OP and needs to be nerfed, I’m asking what it is that you want. To be the OP and hated spec we were in 8.3?
i only hope you enjoy m+ enough to always follow the pug line max keys. and tell me after you’ve played 2months from now (prob pugs will do 25/26 keys) with hunter(surv&mm) mage/warlock/WW/elemental/frost/fury and tell mehow wrong i am.
i’ve seen enough to be 100% convinced that won’t happen as havoc doesn’t do dmg, we’re like B tier.
i don’t want us to be broken, i wanna pug like i did in bfa. without being instantly disconsidered as havoc. (i want that for every class).
nothing else.
eg, i see a group of 2 heavy aoe classes…mage/warlock/elemental/w/e +non vengeance tank. you’d think we’d be instantly considered. not the case. there are other classes that do more aoe than us and same ST or slightly lower. that’s my issue.
but as that isn’t likely to happen as blizzard proved this whole expansion that they have 101 problems but balance isn’t one of them (m+ wise) i’m making a survival alt 
In BfA, you applied to a group as DH and got accepted right away because ‘demon hunter big pew pew’, while the majority of dps who applied to that key were rejected.
There are only 3 spots for dps. There are usually around 20 to 100 dps applying for them (depending on how far along we are in the season). The only way you’ll be able to pug like you did in BfA is if havoc is massively OP… like it was in BfA.
indeed, ignore everything else. that shows i should do something else with my life.
good luck,
can’t wait to hear from you in 2 months.
You don’t need to wait 2 months because I’ll tell you I’ve been running keys with the same groups of friends I’ve been running them with for most of SL. The only reason I pug is if I’m farming a particular dungeon for a loot drop, and then I don’t bother with anything above 15/16.
But since you prefer the joys of pugging over making friends, you’ll continue to deal with the challenges of pugging.
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