As the title says, please don’t force M+ and PvP players to raid just to get the gems and the gear that comes with them, the 3 gems bonuses won’t work outside of the raid/maw/torghast but the gems themselves will and apparently the difference between having them and not having them is pretty significant.
I have 6 characters I intend on playing in M+ for S2 and the prospect of having to mythic raid on at least 2-3 of them to be somewhat competitive really scares me.
Or you know what? Give us a chance to get domination gear in our weekly vault.
I’ve heard in a youtube video that it only works in raid and thorgast. Maybe I’m wrong??
From what I understood, you don’t do M+ NOR raid to do pvp, for example.
Even PvP gear will be better for pvp than pve, which wasn’t the case in first season.
Why shouldn’t the PVP players have to do a bit more? From 9.0 to 9.1 (soon) everyone, I mean, everyone has been getting the big push to go into rated PVP because that is where the best gear is at, but it’s also the most seamless way to gear up due to no RNG item wise.
Were the PVP players complaining about this? No. They were laughing hysterically from the game launch to now because their game mode was the top mode in the game. They then started selling boosts to the desperate to line their pockets.
It’s time for PVP players to get their self into having to do multiple game modes again.
Whilst I’m boggled why they do in fact work outside, the difference isn’t what id call significant. The difference between maxing the gem and having none for the DPS gems is about 1-2% output, so really the difference between DPS racials in PvE, which people largely argue “isn’t significant”.
I’m unsure if you can stack 3 offensive gems, if you can, then it jumps up to about 5% difference for output if you have all 3 (frost, unholy, blood) at max against someone who doesn’t.
For the healing and tank ones, the value is harder to calculate as some of them are very conditional or don’t affect output on others, for example speed buffs, or increasing the healing you do to yourself by 1.5%.
The set bonuses, which are locked, are hugely powerful however. I don’t see the gems themselves as a problem. It’s very much the difference between making sure every single conduit you have is max rank and you’re the best race for your class mathematically, or settling for any race and conduits a couple of ilevels lower.
It will matter to some, but I don’t see people benching people over it or denying them spots similar to how people don’t police whether your conduits are max level, which can make a similar output difference.
But you do need to raid to get the 252ilvl gear to put those gems in and yes you can stack 3 offensive gems. For someone who intends on trying to push 24/25s next season 5% difference is a massive gap.
Weird move indeed.
Yeah and people complained about it constantly because pvp became boostland.
I think you can only socket them on the raid gear which isnt the best for PvP anyway. Also the gems dont actually look too strong. I was worried about this too, but then I looked it all up and it doesn’t look like it will matter too much anyway.
Ya, non-pvpers complained. PVP players got their gear then collectively chose to become boosters.
When people posted to complain about the pvp focus of 9.0, they laughed and mentioned how BFA forced them to do different forms of content then finished of their posts with “Now it’s your turn to suffer like PVP players did in BFA.”
The gems themself arent that much of an issue. Altough they still provide an edge potentially and as such would be an issue for high pvp. However its up to you if you want to use a socket and its gem on a piece that doesnt have versa for instance, which could easily backfire. And yes there are socket pieces with Versa but you also have to keep in mind that PvP gear has higher ilvl than PvE gear in PvP.
So a full Mythic Raider would still be 7ilvl below a Full PvPer. Whether you want to sacrifice the 7ilvl on a piece for a socket is up to you i suppose.
Ok, let’s forget the pvp part, idk why you guys chose to focus on that, I’m a M+ player forced to raid (which I don’t enjoy at all) do to content I enjoy to the highest level.
You’re thinking out of spite, not practicality.
When I ding 60 on an alt I don’t want another end game system to have to go through. Gear is enough. We already have Legendary + Renown. PVP does not need more addons.
That is what happened in 8.3 and it was beyond unplayable for fresh 120’s.
These Set Bonuses will activate when all 3 Shards from a single type (Blood, Frost or Unholy) are socketed and you are in the Maw, Torghast or the Sanctum of Domination raid and have the Runic Dominion debuff.
From all the things the new sockets are by far the least concern for M+ players. Literally by far the least. Yes you would need gear that is better in M+ (but trash in PvP and Raid) from a general perspective to compensate but still the sockets with the current system are your least problem.
Hes talking about the gems themself. Not the set bonus.
If your only goal is KSM sure gems won’t make any difference but I intend to push higher and any dps I can gain is basically mandatory, the few 233 items available in mythic raid didn’t make a big difference in this tier but if we’re talking about gems 5-7% dps diff is massive.
I just wished they’d think about stuff like that, if my sub wasn’t still running for 5 months I would’ve uninstalled when the date for 9.1 for announced, as a M+ playere there’s nothing new except a new affix, the new dungeon isn’t even available in M+ and they are forcing me to do content I don’t enjoy.
To be fair, PvP players have been struck HARD during BfA by being forced to do M+ and raids for BiS gear for PvP, and when they spoke up about it, they were just laughed at as well, so it’s understandable that they enjoy their newfound power in 9.0 (a bit too much, though).
One thing I just don’t understand is why we can’t just have 3 gear systems? PvP gear is the best in PvP, M+ gear in M+ and raiding gear in raids.
That way, if you only like to mythic raid, you just raid for the best stuff. If you like to M+ only, then you don’t need to set a foot into other types of content, and so on.
Why should anyone feel punished for not wanting to participate in something they don’t like in a game?
9.1 takes steps SPECIFICALLY towards nerfing pve gear in pvp and nerfing pvp gear in pve. The goal is obvious - pvp gear should come from pvp and pve gear from pve. There should either be domination pvp gear that comes from pvp, or as OP says - domination sockets shouldn’t work in pvp, because this goes against the core design philosophy of 9.1.
The bonus for domination socket stacking only works in the raid and the maw, but the sockets/gems themselves work everywhere as far as I know. Don’t care much about M+, pve is pve and pve players should do the pve stuff, that includes raids. Nobody should rationally expect to dominate the pve charts by only doing the inferior half of the pve content. Imagine getting some nice raid loot and it doesn’t work in other pve? That’d be so stupid.
There are 2 types of content - pvp and pve. M+ and raids together are pve. Those who only do M+ are choosing an inferior path, and that’s fine. But they’re choosing to not do the bigger half of the new pve content, so they can’t complain.
Exactly. It feels like Blizzard is trying to move the right direction, but got confused halfway there.
PvP and PvE content will work WAY better in 9.1: Sure, PvP gear will be really good to farm early on for PvE players, but as time passes, that will be less ideal. Just do the same with M+ and raiding as well. Make the shards only work in the raid, and raiding gear will once again feel desirable and interesting to obtain.
Why can’t M+ be the bigger half for some players? Imagine if as a raider I forced you to time 20s just so you can do mythic raiding.
Sorry but I don’t remember ever reading Blizzard devs saying that M+ is the inferior half, there are pvp only players and mythic raiders, why can’t there be M+ only players? Does it hurt your game experience if a gem doesn’t work in M+? Probably not, the opposite does hurt mine though.
I really hate Blizz for introducing M+. It causes so many problems to the game and on top of that, it gives people this… this lie, this illusion that they can “beat” the game’s pve without doing… the main pve. I’m alright with M+ as some kind of an infinite arcade mode where people test their characters, skill and organization.
But the raid gear has to work in M+. The two are not separate - you go to M+ to get gear faster to get to the raid, then you use your raid gear to push M+ higher. Pve is one whole thing. The motivation to do the raids is getting interesting gear and then seeing how well it does in M+.
If there’s a choice between making raid gear not work in other pve and removing M+, removing M+ is the better option.
M+ is literally the source of the majority of the problems with the game. Ever since M+ was added, the game has stunk. It was fine as a Legion last patch feature, not as a game mainstay.