Please don't unlock covenants in SL

He did listen in that interview. You could hear him clearly answer questions that were 5 minutes long with answers that were 5 minutes long, trying to keep an incredibly complicated topic focused and clear, and doing so passionately.

Blizzard wants, and has always wanted, characters to diversify. Preach specifically does not want that. He wants to compete directly as if this was an action game. That’s the underlying difference between the two.

The mistake of BfA was entirely in the gearing system, and that mistake consisted in making advancement unexciting by scaling everything to every item level and repeatedly inserting the same thing, as well as a massive over-reliance on RNG and grinding. I think the core idea was to make it too difficult to get exactly the gear you wanted so you had to make do with what you had, but because of the lack of control over what you got, this got very frustrating - and people just simmed it out anyway. It meant instead of a few people simming a BiS list, everyone simmed all the time.

Therefore, when they speak of player agency, they are referring to the removal or diminishing of this RNG. They are not trying to get rid of choices that stick, and they never have.

His past record means nothing in the face of such a clearly explained vision. If he just said “Trust me, I know what I’m doing”, then I’d be as sceptical as you, but he hasn’t. The only thing I’m afraid of is that these abilities themselves are too one-dimensional and too powerful to add much gameplay, but we’ll see, I suppose.

See, what’s funny about that is that this is evidence he actually does understand the desires of competitive or high-end players.

He’s not upsetting hardcore players; he’s upsetting tryhards and the hyper-competitive. I know there’s an overlap there, but the overlap seems to go all the way down.

You’re not. I have found 5 different fire builds that allowed me to win 65-70% of my solo BG’s, and quests have no stringent requirements. It doesn’t matter if the damage is 5% higher or whatever as long as it works and you feel powerful.

It’s more the areas where you’re being very competitive that might be the problem. But I can tell you that I’ve off-tanked several raids on Mythic, and I can also tell you that I killed Mythic Jaina as one of only 55 Guardian Druids, and the only one using the build that I did in the world.

Then again I’m not trying to be competitive. I’m just trying to complete content and get as far as I can, having fun along the way.

Do you remember my post about my ideal gearing system? I think you made one of the first replies to it. I stand by that post. There’s a lot of skinnerbox systems these days where it feels like you’re just grinding the same thing out over and over and over again.

Covenants, for once, aren’t like that.

In vanilla, whenever they made a huge class change or overhaul, they reset your talent trees for free, allowing you to spec again.

That’s a fair straight forward solution. They nerf your covenant spell? You get to go to another one, even one you’ve been in before, without having to do the re-introduction quests and with your progress transferring straight over.

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I might have pugged a lot, but i got examples from even +2 waiting for over half an hour for a tank, then a warrior shows up, and the leader declines because “lets not take a warrior”. This happened in s1 where warrior took the shortest tankstraw. On a +2. Totally facepalming of course. But still.

And on any level in TD a ‘rouge’ was ‘needed’.

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No there will be rogues and both will have bad covenants then maybe after 30 minutes rogue with bis covenant will show up. But will be taken by other group so you will wait another 30 minutes for optimal rogue then you will propably just take other rogue what isnt nonoptimal so you can after 2 hours of looking for right player finaly do 1 mythic +10.

30 minutes lol. For most raids in the lfr system u get many multiples very quickly. And then it for sure is gonna get more discrimitory. <— Is that a word? Idk let roll
with it :slight_smile:

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Well I know but I think that is the thing they are trying to fight(?).

I think that is the point Ion is trying to save, they would like to inject diversity into the game making people choose what they like.

Maybe they are doing in wrong, I am not saying this is gonna work 100% but I do see where he is coming from and I respect that.

Well that is definitely a problem Blizzard created but in the sense that they did not replicate this for other classes over different dungeons giving an extra point to an already favored class.

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Yes and what will be chance that there will be rogue with right spec, right covenant, right legendary and right conduits? With proper rio and gear? GL

In the start of the expansion when no one has a respectable rio nor gear above the m0s every1 can do. You wont even have your first lego. Its basically only going to be the covenant you can go on.

When a class is meta, a lot of people play it. You can be picky as a partyleader.

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Thanks nice but now we are geting into very 0,1% of playerbase which is relevant for this discusion. Most people do not change classes based on meta. We only see this at high end.

You think so, do you. Lets start a +5 and see how many DH’s sign up.

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Please don’t lump all millenials in that boat. :yum:

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Like how do you get your information? The silent majority, stop pulling “facts” out of your butt good sir!

So basically it’s just a perceived negative impact, nothing real.

Well making them unswitchable has negative impact that is actually real on everyone else’s gameplay.

They are not unswitchable tho.

How is it diversifying if you are locked into a choice?

@Kierkegard You know what this is about, it’s about switching them easily, which they can’t right now.

I am against easily swapping them in the sense I would not like to see them be like a simple talent.

But i am also against being them too hard to move on, like having to restart all the progress etc, pay for it or things like that.

It is really hard to find a middle ground.

That’s literally what it means. This is almost bordering on “consult a dictionary”.

A diverse group means a group where the constituent members are very different from one another and cannot or do not immediately homogenise and become very similar.

It can refer to any choice the person has made, such as their profession or standing or style of clothing and things like that, and it can also refer to choices they have not made themselves, such as their background or what might have been done to them in their past, especially as children, or characteristics where nobody made a choice but it just is what it is, such as their sex, skin colour, or other characteristic.

The agency in that diversity is your ability to make every single one of those choices. In other words, it’s not going to be like in Rust, where your character’s appearance is based on a hash of your Steam profile name and things like that. You, and you alone, make the choice, and must then live with the upsides and downsides of that choice.

I agree. When you join another covenant you should keep your progress, and going back should mean having to do some content to get in again, but not getting your progress reset and having to do it all again.

If it has an effect of my in game experience then it is certainly real.

If i chose to use Vision of Perfection for raiding a boss, and using Condensed Life Force on another boss, but after that i go and do my dailies and use Reaping Flames.

That is diversifying.

Having to use only Vision of Perfection for everything is not diversifying, it’s making me locked into one choice.

This isn’t hard to understand, idk what twisting logic people use to justify that this is “diversifying” by having 1 choice and sticking with it.

@Pixelripper Except that it’s a perceived negative impact. It’s not real, you can literally chose to stay in one covenant, whereas i can’t chose to move between them easily.

That is a real impact, not your perceived one.

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No.

The only diversity is coming from the fact that you play two different bosses and then do dailies. You are not making any additional diversity on top of that. There is no diversity in how you approach the boss each time you approach it. You are merely, as it were, dragging spells onto your action bar at the moment you need it, and everyone else around you are dragging the exact same spells down at the exact same time for the exact same reasons.

There is no diversity of playstyle other than what already exists and there is no diversity among the players.

You are very, very confused. You think solving different problems with different tools means that you have created diversity in how the individual problems are solved.

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