Retail IS endgame. That is what makes retail… well… retail you know…
For example:
Means more time spent leveling. So Alts take longer to level.
If you disable zone scaling, what happens is that mobs return to the level they used to be.
Which means that you would return to what leveling used to be. YES, you had zones with “skull” level mobs in it. But you would ALSO have zones with “grey level” mobs. Where you still have about 20 quests to complete (for Lore) and completing it gives you nothing.
And not only does it give you nothing, but you have to strip down in clothes to avoid killing that level 5 mob while being level 20.
That is “not slowing things down”. That is called frustration to the max. Are you 100% POSITIVE you want the old leveling back? Are you 100% SURE there wasent a reason why leveling in Retail is the way it is?
Newsflash: It DOES have a reason. The “skull” level and “grey level” did not make the world feel dangerous, or slow. You lost continuity by being forced to move zones/questiles before finishing them. Made it extremely annoying to quest.
It encourages nothing. The problem with retail is that it has 10 expansions. Unlike classic, that has only ONE. 2 at best.
Like I said. Retail IS endgame. You want to make “the world relevant again” then make that the Endgame.
WHY?
There are veterans that want an Alt. Not to sit there for 5 months questing…
Then STAY there. Dont play Retail.
Retail is the way it is BECAUSE it has these features. Stop trying to make retail feel like classic. It wont. EVER.
But he wants it as an option in Chromie time. I see no harm in that, you can still level fast by picking the normal options but people that want to spend more time leveling they would have the option to.
The real argument is if there are enough of these people to warant such a system to be implemented.
You should be able to activate Chromi time as a max level toon. Thats IT.
Well no.
I admit that the leveling experience in Retail is a mess. For many reasons. I got a ton of ideas on how to solve this.
But retail problems require retail solutions. Porting things from Classic is the most stupid idea I can think of. Because Retail IS the evolution of Classic. All the “annoying things” from Classic were patched up over the years until it turned into Retail. Its just that OP forgot !
So saying that questing was more “fulfilling” in Classic. Well NO. It was annoying. Annoying enough for people to ask for reforms (back in the day at-least). That is what Retail IS. So going back to that, is dumb. As you might imagine.
I am basically so sick of the Classic “fanboyz” coming to the other side asking for things to look more like Classic. Im so sick im gonna start going to their forums to start spitting in their gameplay. Saying that Classic would be better with M+ timers… For example…
Thats still boring imo. You are spot on that we do require retail solutions for retail problems though. Mana breaks, downtime in rotations/cds is just stupid in retail and won’t change anything. Mobs having more abilities and/or actual mechanics that spice up your combat might do the trick, but again going over each mob type over 10+ expansions just so a handful of people could have more fun leveling isnt particilarly worth it.
FIRST: The problem with leveling is that you got 3 types of players living there. All 3 are mutually exclusive of each-other because each want different things. They are: (1) New players (2) Alt-power levelers and (3) collectors.
Giving “options” is BAD. Because more options == spitting the playerbase. So splitting the playerbase across arbitrary “options” means that you dont solve the issue (3 types of players) AND you dilute the amount of players. So you create more problems than you solve with options.
My solution is to split those players. Physically.
New players get a brand new continent. Where they level from 1-60. With tutorials and a nice generic story with a generic “bad guy”. Once they finish this, they get a level boost to [relevant expansion level] and a set of green items. Plus a cinematic of “the story so far”. This should stand the test of time. Same continent, no scaling… nothing… for ever.
Power levelers simply get to buy a level boost from 1 to [relevant expansion level] for gold. Acting as a gold sink.
And now, you have freed up the old-world do whatever you want with it. Scale it however you want. Make as many things as you want. And you start by doing things like the T3 transmog. Every patch you add some new “zone” to farm things in. Mogs, ect… And the scaling? NO scaling. Every mob is level 80… EZ.
And that is how you do it.
I can tell you that I would like something like this. But I can also tell you at 100%… 1M% that the “classic fanboyz” will absolutely hate this. They will say it takes away from the “relaxing” experience of classic leveling.
And in essence, that’s completely fine. However, such a thing isn’t created out of thin air. The development of such a system would need to take place and that means that something else would have to either be canceled, considerably slowed down or put on the backburner. And I personally don’t think that’s worth it.
Now of course if it would just be an optional difficulty toggle that just scales the mobs up a bit; sure. I don’t think that’d take a lot of time, but I honestly don’t think that the devs would want that. Blizzard often wants to take a new mode or system and try and give it that ‘Blizzard polish’. Whether they’ve been succeeding at that or not as of late, is another discussion entirely of course.
I don’t think those 3 groups are an accurate assessment of the playerbase.
I myself for instance do not identify with any of those groups.
Not only ‘classic fanboyz’. I would hate it as well.
I am not looking for a challenge. I want to slash through stuff like its soft butter. THAT is fun to me. And relaxing.
No, I think you’re wrong: Optional IS the way to go. Not ‘a bunch of options’, because yes that’d split the playerbase too much. But a ‘normal’ or ‘hard’ mode. Just those two options.
But then I refer you back to my above comments to the OP.
They are already split into 10 expansions. The WoW player is a difficult beaat to please. On one hand he wants to solo stuff and on the other he wants to not be bored to tears. I will elaborate further and adress the other parts of the post later, because I don’t really have time atm sry.
Are you new? NO.
Are you a power-leveler eager to jump into the M+ scene as fast as possible? NO.
Therefore you are category 3. In your defense I will say its very “broad” name, but I did not know what else to call it. But what I ment is people that want to do some activity there. What activity? Well that is what this post is all about. To discuss the what.
But you most defenitly fall in category 3.
Sure. So you are completly happy with the way things are now then. Cause that is literally the complaint of OP: Slicing things like butter (or lack of “danger”) is his main complaint.
But if what you really want is to sit there spamming 1 and killing things out of boredom with white attacks…
Well… that is what Classic is all about. And that is its purpose.
And have you back here complaining on how “empty” the world is… no thanks. You know exactly what happens with “optional” in end-game. We had a heavy discussion about that.
And your plan is to get a revamp of the old world, which already has few people interested. And make that even fewer… not a good idea Tah…
The only reason Classic and Retail can be split is because their players are usually mutually exclusive. So regular Retail players will not play in Classic. And regular Classic players will not play in Retail.
In other words. If they deleted Classic (and its 10 versions) would all those players move to Retail? I doubt it. Some would. But most would not.
It’s about finding a balance. I am not advocating for mana break every after pull, but after every, for example, 100-150 ability uses I would consider a 30sec break to be a good point to give the player some breathing room too (and relax fingers too).
Similarly, my proposal for longer CDs means to remove the ability of players to treat the game as superpowered gods against level 1 wolves. If I can emergency heal myself to full every 2 minutes for example instead of every 15sec (or even every 5sec for some specs like Enhancement!), that already puts me in a position where I may have to approach the overworld content more carefully. If I can use my movement ability once per minute instead of 3 times per minute (like Blink or Divine Steed currently are), that also would make the player more careful since they know that they won’t have that ability available for every time they are in combat.
My idea for this was to first balance specializations to have somewhat equal damage outside of dps cooldowns. For example a Prot Warrior, a Resto Shaman and a Frost Mage on a target dummy should be able to produce somewhat equal dps numbers when the Frost Mage does not use any cooldowns. Then you make tanks, healers (and supports!) deal 50% less damage on enemies 1 level above, 75% less damage on enemies 2 levels above, 87.5% less damage on enemies 3 levels above, and multiplicatively another 50% damage penalty if an enemy is rare or elite. The target of this proposal is to make the 3 (4) roles somewhat equal in overworld content when soloing, while at the same time making grouping up optimal
Not necessarily. You can have everyone in a shared world with different goals. I’d like to expand on that but I am at work right now (I’ll return to this topic from home)
That’s not what I want either. And that’s not how I feel when I level in retail, thankfully.
You will never find me complaining about that. I like it when it’s quiet. It’s why I rolled on the RP server that I did.
So are the people who’d want a normal or a hard mode for leveling.
If the hard mode was the only option available, it’d kill the experience for me. It would literally wreck the part of WoW I enjoy most (not talking about leveling from 1 to max here, to be clear. I’m talking about leveling in a new expansion).
So if that were to happen, WoW would be dead to me.
Hell… Make warmode the go-to ‘hard mode leveling’ experience.
It already exists, so your concerns should be quelled. And it would still be optional.
If people complain they don’t like pvp, well… That’s one of the things that makes leveling harder. So accept that or just don’t play warmode. Simple.
In this post nobody has said anything about this NOT being optional. We all know that in one way or another, Blizz could easily attract more players by adding a OPTION for this, without ruining or making it weird for players who choose the nornal way. Its 2025, we are not restricted, WoWs new adapt to everyones playstyle should give us a option to experience all of World of Warcraft with a slower journey. “Go back to Classic” is not a valid argument. Its not hard to implement a xp reduction and mob adapting to this mode.
Of course it should be optional. But I am confident it would be a semi popular feature that would not even take that long to develop. And, there is absolutely no difference for you if you do not want to level like that. Why did they add Chromie? For customability, versatile and adapting to what players want to do Instead of following a set up plan on how to play and level. What is this post about? Options… versatile options…
And Ill say it again; there is no need for phases to seperate them. The tech to handle two or more
different players at the same time with different levels, damage output, etc at the same time is already available for Blizz.
Naturally; reaching Lvl 60 would disable this mode, as to opt in for end game content (unless Blizz found a way to work with this too, but that is not the point of this post.)
It’s a great idea. I like it and personally I would enjoy this “adventuring style” of game. Not everyone wants to just fly through 1-80 and hit the m+ and raid scene, so definitely as an option through Chromie.
I don’t think this would anyhow affect other players - everyone can choose how they wanna level - speed wise and expansion wise.
At this point I can’t find the way to go through all expansions at my own pace, exploring zones, collecting stuff, finishing quests and storylines. At max level it might seem attracting to some people to revisit old zones and one shot half the region with one keybind.
Personally, I would welcome also option to scale any old content to current level, to have the real feeling of adventure. Doesn’t fit for anyone, that’s why I’m saying “option” and I don’t think this would hurt anyone in game if this would exist.
This assumes that players in “hard mode” would be on different phase than those on “normal mode”. It’s not required. Players from both difficulties can be on the same phase and hit the same enemy, with the enemy taking damage and dealing damage to each player according to the mode they are in. This isn’t different than a level 23 and a level 57 hitting the same overworld mob; the game converts internally everything to a specific base that it uses for global calculations, then reconverts them to numbers that appear individually for each player. So players who are on “normal” mode and players on “hard” mode can be on the same phase with the player on “normal” mode having an easier time and the player on “hard” mode having a harder time.
It wouldn’t be like Warmode where Warmode and non-Warmode players are in different phases.
I am so much against this. It’s not like WoW is not attracting new players, the problem is that its not hooking them in. My proposition for this is A) make leveling slower B) further increase the XP buff for alts but make it retroactive (essentially for us veterans the leveling will be as it is now, for a new player it will be much slower) C) Delete Newbie island because it’s horrible and destroys the idea of racial starting zones C.1) Potentially make more starting zones for the Allied races and D) Have a class campaign that involves the order halls, every few levels you will get a new campaign chapter, each chapter will unlock a new ability for your class (some of the baseline ones, and yes move some utility from talents to baseline) and present you with reasons to use said abilities*, also unlock a new class set that will help you while leveling.
In Tahs defense, he doesn’t mean it’s empty in terms of players, he means its empty in terms of things to do in it.
But the problem isn’t really the dmg of tanks and healers in OW. The problem is that they are borderline unkillable, their only downside was DPS which leads to boring gameplay, give them that you have no downsides.
Scaling is easy, it is also lazy. Scaling damage and health is such a artificial way to increase/decrease difficulty in games. If you want true difficulty changes, you gotta look at the complexity of systems and mechanics of the game.
So we play an MMO and somehow finding players out there is under discussion? To be honest, if I want to play a SP game there are better ones than WoW in that department.
You can argue that making a party or not is under discussion. But finding people running around? Its a MUST in an MMO. And those that are against that I would invite them to play something else.
Correct. But how would you do this?
Slower through where exactly? Through the same zones veterans want to speed run through content to get to max level as fast as possible?
Through some zones that thanks to 10 expansions are a complete mess story wise? Including some (like MoP) that are permanently changed? Through expansions where the end-boss (the big-bad) is blocked through a dungeon/raid?
And then slower? Are we mad? You know how slow you would need to quest in order to “see” all the expansions in a coherent way? Do you have ANY idea how much stuff are we talking about here? If you wanted to quest through Cata all the way to TWW we are talking a years of gameplay. Thousands of quests… Its NOT something you can ask a “new player”.
Plus, its is absolutely NOT prepared for new players. ZERO tutorials. ZERO new player friendliness. Because all the expansions expect you to show up with some X level. Some X knowledge of the game…
Im sorry but no. Stacked up seasonal content is not something new-player friendly. And blizzard cant do anything about it. It is what it is, and you cannot change what already happened. The only way is to make something brand new and change the whole concept of new player’s experience.
WHY? Why do we have to stick to some Vanilla concept? Why not racial quests after you made your toon?
You need a max level toon to get allied races. Makes no sense what you ask here. For new players atleast.
What does this have to do with “new player” tutorials? That is a feature for veterans. NOT new players.
New players need simple ABC. And a compelling, catchy story. Something which old zones cannot realistically provide.
This isn’t for veterans. Like I said we have the XP buff, its for new players.
Wherever. Let new players choose where they want to go with chromie time. Its absolutely retarded that new players do not get to choose where they want to and are stuck in DF (even though DF is prety decent for leveling, especially compared to BfA).
No no no, not all 10 expansion. Lets say 2 expansions from start to finish (endgame zones included) should get you from 1 to 70/level at which current expansion starts, without the XP boost. Again leveling for a veteran player should be as fast it is now if they choose to.
Yes thats what the class campaign is for. A tutorial for new players tailor made to fit the class they chose.
You are right and its a stupid restriction. ARs should be unlicked by default.
PS Yes new players need a catchy story amd old zones could provide that. Story wise we have had it better in the past. Like seroliously does anyone really care about the mechano dwarve? How about the hedgehog elves? Who here has Faerin Lothar as their favorite character?
