Please make Torghast no longer mandatory, or at least fun

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I have played WoW since Wrath, and I have never hated an area of content as much as I hate doing Torghast every week, I hate it enough to write my first and probably last forum post ever. I think my hatred of Torghast is amplified by the fact that Torghast is an absolutely mandatory method of gaining Soul Ash with no substitute, especially on a class like Mage which has 10+ legendaries which thrive in different situations, and so skipping Torghast for a week is simply not an option. I have been able to bare Torghast throughout Shadowlands up until 9.1 as I would simply run through the entire floor, use Invisibility at the end or Shadowmeld to drop combat, then kill the boss, and finish a layer after about 5 minutes. With the way the score system was implemented in 9.1, this is not something you can do if you want to progress through the layers.

For context, I have raided Hall of Fame for the past 3 tiers and cutting edge for most tiers before then, I have had gladiator in PvP and I enjoy pushing mythic+, so I do enjoy all forms of content this game provides, and I try to be good at it. However, Torghast just feels awful to play in its current form.

I played Torghast on the beta before Shadowlands came out, and I loved it more than anything that has been put in the game before, I even forced myself to stop doing Torghast on the beta so that I did not burn out before it went live. When I played Torghast on the beta I could run around and pull 3 or 4 packs of enemies and aoe them all down as a Frost Mage without too much issue, but still the threat of dying, currently if I pull 2 or more packs I have to be very careful with what I’m doing – rotating defensives on cooldown, using alter time at efficient times, line of sighting hard hitting spells - or I just die. This just leads to Torghast clears being incredibly slow and boring, and it feels like a test of attrition rather than ability.

Throughout all of Shadowlands, and more recently in 9.1, I feel like my character is incredibly weak in Torghast, even on the final layer when I have 25 powers or so, my spells just do not do any additional damage. In my opinion your character should feel overwhelmingly powerful in content like Torghast, it should be a playground to have fun and do things that you could never do in the real game.

Now I am not sure if this is a problem with Mage powers specifically or Torghast as a whole. If you look through the entire list of powers that Mage can get in Torghast and look for any that increases the damage of your abilities all of them are incredibly weak, something like 5 - 15% increased damage on 1 ability, and this is only 4 powers total. Then there is only 1 useful power which increases survivability which is Resolute Medallion, which unfortunately I will choose over literally any other power that is offered even though it is grey, because it allows you to survive multiple packs and use cooldowns to kill them without just dying yourself.

I beg that Blizzard please provide an alternative option of getting Soul Ash which contributes to the total that you can get from Torghast, otherwise you will simply be forced to do them both. Even if the solution is 50 Soul Ash per Maw / Korthia daily, this would be a significant quality of life increase for me, and I am sure many others. Alternatively, I would enjoy Torghast if there were more powers that simply allowed your character to destroy any enemy that is put in front of them – which is what many classes currently can do. I’m just tired of putting up with Torghast the way it is currently designed, and I doubt that I will last until the end of Shadowlands if I have to do Torghast all the way through.

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Good news! You only need to complete a 4-star layer once to unlock the next one. Then you can go and do your usual speed runs and completely ignore the scoring system. Even better, since unlocks are account wide, you can unlock a layer on a character where Torghast is easier, and continue speedrunning it on your mage.

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It used to be you get access to the next layer if you beat the current layer, regardless of any score, hell, there wasn’t even a score. Too weak to make it on the next floor? eh you’d find that out by yourself, but atleast you had the next layer unlocked and ready.

Now it is possible to complete your Torghast layer and not get access to the next one.
Where is the good news in this? I’ve tried to think on an upside but I cannot think of a single thing

All the score system really does is add a fail condition to completing a layer, its rediculous

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You could end up running out of lives before. You don’t have that anymore. You also have one floor less, which also means that mobs - and the final boss - scale less past the first broker floor. Luckily, they upped the anima power spawn rates, so while we have a floor less, we still get roughly the same amount of powers. So not only is the last two floors easier due to scaling, we also have similar amounts of powers, can use our empowered buff to speed things up further, and we have the box of many things on top of that too.

Achieving 4-star isn’t hard, and its downright trivial if you go with a group.

The score system isn’t the best, for sure, but I’d rather take this than what we had before (and I say that as someone who cleared layer 8s in slightly over 6 minutes on multiple specs and classes).

Why, you may ask? Easy!

For anyone who wants to PuG Torghast, prior to the score system, the only metric was clearing fast. Not fast enough? Goodbye. Wanted to grab a follower who was out of the way? No can do. Rush, rush, rush. That’s not very fun for many (see the threads about plaguefall skips and m+ timers).

Anyone who goes with friends and guildies, they’ll clear it fast and effortlessly anyway. My own experience is that when I went with friends and guildies, we did near full clears, because we rarely had the option to just run through and meld/invis/feign death the mobs off at the end, so might as well clear the stuff that’s in the way. In practice, our runs with one floor less, doing full clear, are faster than our 6-floor runs in 9.0 with half clears. We also have a nice empowered bar and buff, which when used well, can drastically cut down your time even further.

At the same time, for those who want to do speed runs: you still can! You will need to unlock the next layer once, yes, but that’s a very small price to pay for everyone else having an easier time in Torghast.

Oh, and we also have the Box of Many Things, which will eventually speed things up considerably aswell. And farmable Soul Ash. And come next week, being able to send soul ash to other characters on the same account.

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The empowerment buff does very little to make my class stronger, since it gives increased haste and minor increase in leech, the buff isn’t enough to make me capable of doing bigger pulls, so it simply makes me kill a pack faster than I otherwise would have, which feels largely pointless, and certainly not fun.

I don’t think that 4 star is hard if you play Torghast in a specific way or with a group, but it feels terrible that I can’t complete content that is designed to be completed solo or in a group on the basis that the powers I can get are all useless.

I think that in a few weeks when we have the talents from the Box of Many Things Torghast might be a bit more enjoyable, but I’m already at the point in this expansion from doing Torghast every week for 9 months that the enjoyment of the content is irredeemable and I would rather do any content in the game other than Torghast.

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I think 4 gemming is plain impossible. My runs ended with 142 and 151 scores; 3 gems for both runs. And since i knew there was a timer i pushed and rushed like crazy. 99% clearances with 0 deaths. I think that should definitely be enough to open the new layer.

Just stop these gems crap requirements.

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You get more points from completion and objectives than timing. People have 5 starred runs with 0-5 timer points, let alone 4 starred.

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I had a 99% completion though :thinking: What more objectives does the game really want me to do? I did everything possible in there.

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Tried doing it in a group? I dont know how these new things works, but maybe its easier in group then solo. Havent tried torg solo yet with the changes, so dont know how that will be for me.

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No i haven’t. But i am not really into getting boosted either by specs that can pull big and go faster than my spec. When that is the answer then this is even a more failed experiment than it already was in my oppinion.

30 minutes full clear 0 deaths. It should be enough.

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I dont know if that is the answer, like i say i havent really understood the new system :stuck_out_tongue: I’ll probably try solo run next reset just to see what i can manage on my own, but rsham is quite OP in torg with the right powers…

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They’re not. I 4-starred on guardian druid and resto shaman so far without even trying.

Here’s a ret pally doing a 5-star run, for example:

There are multiple guides too, that explain how the scoring works, and what you should pay attention to when going for a 4±star run. One of them is this one:

Dratnos had a video or two about it too, I believe.

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Yup, i had seen the dratnos video :slight_smile:
Problem is my spec (and covenant), which makes me only being able to pull 1 mob at a time (since i can only damage 1 at a time).

It all doesn’t matter. 0 deaths full clear shows i am able to do the next layer. Just let me climb.

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Kill 2 elites at once at some point in the run, and throw your red orb from broker 1 at broker 2.

Also on floor 2 pop empowerment just as you’re killing the floor boss and run into floor 3 before it falls off.

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They should fire the incompetent a-holes they got working on it. Some classes struggle in there, because the powers they get, are a joke, while others just steamroll through, because their powers are overpowered. Yet again, Blizzard has shown how incompent they are, that they are a-holes

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They tried to make it fun, so lets stick with not mandatory.

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