Please reduce CC chaining capabilities from PvP and add an uptime cooldown for CC debuffs on players

I don’t have to tell you how BS and interrupting it is for the gameplay to have this many CC effects being chainable in a row.

I just came out of an unranked arena match, in which I got chain stunned CCd for 20 14 seconds. In my 10 years of playing video games of various genres and quality, I have never seen any more :poop: than this ever before.

Which game designer in their right mind creates abilities that are chainable to stun someone for almost half 1/4 of a minute without adding an uptime blocker or something similar to it?

Why do stuns not get automatically reduced when you get stun debuffs several times in a row without a 5 seconds break inbetween?

[Edits: Title shortened a bit and fixed the "20s" over-exaggeration]

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you cannot be stun for 20 seconds

they do

https://www.wowhead.com/crowd-control-diminishing-returns-wow-pvp

I think the longest you can get stunned for is like 12seconds and that is very unlikely to occur in arena at least

If you are getting chain cc’d it’s you or your partners fault. The more cc is removed from pvp the more it becomes a dps derpfest race where whoever does the most dummy dps wins. That’s horrible design. I understand being frustrated, but either adapt and overcome or don’t pvp. Just don’t try to ruin it for the rest of us.

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There is old mmo called warhammer online still running on private server quite succesfully since 2013 after the official servers were closed, very active devs that listen the community and peoples feedback on the forums and in my opinion good community but like any priva server the community is tight.

Anyways its free to play and is 100% pvp entire gametime you chose to spend there since start to max level and the pvp never ends (war never ends) it has always had better game mechanics in my opinion and design for pvp compared to wow, having collission and applying certain school of cc mechanic on a player makes him immune to similar for next 30sec if I remember right so you do need to mind on what you are using more than just have people throw their abilities on a target one after one to keep him perma cc for the duration you get rid of his friend

Also the fact that there just arent 100 get to/escape/cc abilities in the game like in modern wow almost every class has atleast 50 different mobility and cc abilities so it becomes this fiesta :joy:

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Ok, then explain me how I can get frozen (unable to use skills and move) for 6 seconds, then whirl-winded (unable to use skills and move) for 6 seconds and then be knocked-out (again unable to use skills and move) for 4 seconds?

Why does this even work with 3 different interrupt/stun/stuck abilities? Everything above 5 seconds is already to long in general, no matter what RPG genre a player is playing.

No matter what interrupt/stun/stuck/slow ability you use, if it is used on a target that has this 15-seconds rule active, it should be decreased. Not just a “similar effect”. All of them.

My experience a few matches ago should not be an exception and not be so exploitable in general.

2 things on this.

  1. It can’t be my partners fault if my partner is dead already since 15 seconds and has neither influence nor effect on how the opposing players use their CCs
  2. CCs should not be removed, of course. But they should be much more limited in their chain potential. The fact that they even can chain together, is a problem itself, since it does break the gameplay harmony between the player using the ability and the player being hit by the ability.

Enjoyable fighting in games is take-and-give relying. If being stunned sucks so hard that the player on the receiving end feels mistreated as a player instead of feeling outplayed, then that is also, horrible design.

Extra Credits has a very good short video on that topic:

I think something like that would fit better in WoW, but instead of a 30 seconds stun immunity a 5 seconds stun immunity would be already enough and totally fair imo for both sides.

not a stun

not a stun

so one stun ?

because they are 3 different abilities of 3 different DRs.
I’ll join my fellow arena enjoyer above and say that if you got dunked into such a long CC chain, it’s your entire team (including you)'s fault if it resulted in someone dying (note the emphasis)

Well, you know, that’s like, your opinion, man.

How about you learn the game before you ask for it to be revamped ? You clearly have no experience with it and so you get outplayed, play more and this won’t happen anymore

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Ok, tell me how it is my fault?

Because Blizzard decided that those 3 different abilities with the exact same effects don’t count as the same type of ability, simply because of what, animations, textures and cancels on taking damage?

Is it my teams fault for being matched against a team with better class combination?

Or is it my team members fault for being dead?

Or is it my class designs fault for having only 2 abilities that remove stuns which can’t be used within 25 seconds of each other due to a CD, while the enemy can stun you again after 12 seconds while your 2nd stun block ability still have 13 seconds of cooldown before you can use the other one too.

Is it my fault that the enemy team has 4 stun/incapacitate abilities available on their class in summary, while I, as a Paladin, have only 1 that prevents players actions? (edit: not counting talents here)

Again, it doesn’t matter how those skills are declared as a freeze or stun or incapacitate or disorient ability. If they remove a players ability to both move and perform actions in combat, they do all the same.

Let us look for this at the definition of the abilities from the WoWpedia.

Stun effects are a form of crowd control that cause the victim to be unable to move or perform most actions for a period of time. Stuns are significantly more effective than snare or root effects, since they prevent the victim from taking any action, and unlike disorient and incapacitate effects, do not break when the victim is damaged.

Incapacitate or Knockout, is a form of crowd control that renders a player or NPC unable to move or act for a short period of time. Incapacitate differs from Stun in that Incapacitate effects always break on damage, while Stun effects don’t.

Disorient, previously called Confusion, and more rarely referred to as Mesmerize, is an incapacitating crowd control effect which prevents the target from taking any action for a certain period of time, although, unlike stuns, disorient effects do break on damage. They cause the target to wander about in a confused fashion for the duration of the effect.


Now, back to the situation I had in the match. My partner is already dead after a 3 minutes long fight. The opponents use their CCs on me but don’t attack me at all, meaning all disorients and incapacitate effects did the exact same as a stun ability.

They prevent me from doing anything in the game (moving and using abilities) for a duration of 15 seconds or more, simply because they are not measured as “the same ability type” and the opponents chose to not attack me while I was affected and kept me therefore in a “stunned effect duration” that exceeded what is fine to a player.

And guess what the enemies did in the meantime, aside of refreshing the CCs? They healed up to full life within those 15 seconds, while I was standing there in the open, unable to do anything aside of just watching them prevent me from interacting in the fight. For 15 seconds at least. Still 1/4 of a minute. Still a very long time in a combat situation. Still unfair to the receiving player on the end of the ability.

Tbh if you play against outlaw you can’t play whole game and imagine outlaw+destro i guess you can get kidney into kidney into infernal stun twice which is like 15 sec stunlock (maybe if you use that new aids trinket?) I have no clue how outlaw works but i wouldn’t be surprised to see such a long stunlock (well i guess not 20sec).

Although your post is over-exhaggerated, it think i can read inbetween the lines and see your fustration.

Stuns are too long in this “one shot meta”. Thats pretty much where your coming from, and rightly so. These stuns are a long as they were back in vanilla in some places and there is no place for so many stuns in a quick one shot meta. The stuns and snares should mirror the timing of smite

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Yeah this is your first problem. People need to press their buttons or they’re going to die. It’s not BfA anymore where someone can lazily press 1 defensive to live through multiple people popping every offensive cd they have. You get immediately punished for mistakes which is good.

Go ahead and watch high level 3v3 games and the vast majority of them go on for several minutes. You need to ask yourself why, but I’ll save you the time and tell you: Good players trade cd’s correctly. You are essentially complaining about playing badly and getting punished for it. That’s good. The devs should not dumb everything down to BfA levels again where people can play terribly and still have games that go on for 10 minutes.

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this is technically not possible. Also especially as a paladin you basically have 3 ways to get out of stuns. Trinket, bubble and bop.

there is a Diminishing return on stuns. You cant get stunned for 20 seconds.

you do

no cc chains is an essential part of wow pvp. If you dont like that play pve.

you are clearly extremly unexperienced in WoW PvP especially arena. I suggest playing alot more and actually understanding what is happening before you complain on the forum about mechanics.

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If PvP is too complicated, just stick to PvE…

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Outlaw could blind player1 ks p2 then vanish sap p1 and then ks p1 (or dr ks p2) assuming they have lego. Can throw a gouge in there for good measure after sap.

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Thing is, I have over-exaggerated with the 20 seconds, but the 15 seconds are actually accurate because I counted it while I was in said stunlock. I have a player that can confirm this if needed (but don’t expect him to comment here), which is the player I grouped up with for the ranked arena in the first place. He has seen it too. He also said it is :poop:

I don’t think someone needs to read in-between the lines to get my frustration :laughing:

I think you are refering to “Smite: Battleground of the Gods”, right? It has been some time since I played the game (around maybe 2-3y now) so I can’t really follow on what you would like to point in this case :slight_smile:

Thing is, I am speaking of Matches in rated Arena with my team mate and me being unranked, while being matched against players that are already in a rank. I don’t care how high competitive rated Arena looks like in the upper skill/rating brackets. I speak about the very early matches in the rating playlists where such things shouldn’t happen unless someone is playing on a different account or something.

Also, as a sidenote, if the “high level 3v3 games” are about “trading cd’s correctly” then that sounds to me less like “playing as team” and rather “playing by math”, which is basically the same :poop: in raiding with heroic and mythic difficulty.

As I said above, I did over-exaggerate by 5 seconds with the duration. But 15 seconds is the actual duration I was unable to fight back. And regarding the trinket and the abilities…

  • I can’t use my immunity abilities if I am still having the global cooldown from using the 1st one before the stunlock moment. This CD is on every class (afaik) 25 seconds long. Paladin Bubble lasts around 8-10 seconds. That’s still 15 seconds remaining of the 25 seconds cooldown til I can use the other one.
  • I can’t use my defense trinket for preventing stuns and interrupts when I am stunned.
  • I can’t use the trinket for breaking-free of stuns because I don’t have it yet. And if I need 1 specific trinket, just to be able to play the game on a normal level, then that tells a lot about the awful state of the sandbox of a game.

I can get stunned for at least 15s when the various different abilities have different declarations in the system and either don’t count towards the diminishing effect or if they have different duration uptimes.

I was stunned for 15s. From different abilities from different classes.

The Article on WoWHead linked above from Spektral says:

Recall that in my original description of DRs, I wrote “a diminishing return is the reduction of the duration of a crowd control effect when the same (or when a similar) effect is used on a player target.” It is important that I included the word “similar” because every crowd control effect belongs to a specific group of diminishing return categories. What this means is that two spells with the same diminishing return categories will share the same diminishing returns. For example, if a Mage player uses Polymorph on a target that has recently been effected by an 8-second Sap, the Polymorph will only last for 4 seconds. If two spells are in different categories, they will not share diminishing returns. If a Rogue uses Blind on a target that has just left a Polymorph, the Blind will last its full duration (so long as the target has not been recently effected by other disorient effects).

First I got hit by Cyclone (disorient, druid) (full 6 seconds duration in pvp), then by Freezing Trap (Incapacitate, hunter) (full 8 seconds duration in pvp)

The math: 6s + 8s = 14s (+1s because of lag perhaps or my time perception)

The result. It is possible. Why? Because Cyclone is a disorient-CC and Freezing Trap is a incapacitate-CC. They are CC of different types in the game system and there are not affected by the specific diminishing effect of their group in combination.

As said above. No further explanation here. Read the article closely.

2 things on this.

  1. I do only play PvE because of this CC :poop:
  2. That’s also the reason why PvP is dying in this game both the playlists and WM. New Players experience this CC problem and are immediately “nope, this is not fun” and stop playing pvp. No big surprise.

As a player paying money to be able to play this game I have every right to make a complaint post as same as you have every right to counter argue here.

The blue trinket costs like 525honor and is the first thing you should buy.

Also if you get hit by long CC with that trinket, you can then use it appropriately (i.e. if your partner doesn’t use defensives). Clone is also interruptible.

But yes, if you’re completely new to arena, it will be difficult. unfortunately it has no tutorial.

Is there also a purple one instead?

you still dont understand what a “stun” is. I know that you can get full trap into full clone into full stun. Everyone here knows that because we played thousands of arena games while you have 13 games played this season.

Being in CC for 15 seconds is not a problem at all. Your partner can just use a defensive cooldown and will survive. Thats called trading cooldowns. The next cc chain you can use your cooldowns and safe your partner etc.
And i didnt even talk about preventing the CC for example you can pre sac traps, prevent the clone after the trap etc.

You are just very bad at pvp (which is totally normal since you didnt play arena yet) and dont understand whats going on.

If you played a few hundred games and still dont like the CC focused arena gameplay then maybe WoW PvP is not for you but dont complain about something you have no experience with.

wow pvp is super complicated and not beginner friendly but thats why its so much fun. The depth is amazing, the skill cap is immense. if you want to rush in without using your brain and spam dmg do battlegrounds or mythic +.

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  1. When I speak of “stun” I speak of the general meaning, not the WoW exclusive one. When you are stunned in a game or IRL it usually means you are unable to move and execute actions of any type. That’s not so hard to understand. What WoW does is just re-labeling the same effects and calling it “different”.
  2. My Partner can’t save me with his defensive CDs when he is dead. Again, being at a 1v2 disadavantage is already worse enough. The CC problem just adds another awful layer on top of it.
  3. It is not only a problem in WoW, but basically every damn MMORPG worldwide that has an over-extensive CC usage in their games sandbox.

I don’t think WoW PvP has actually depth but rather skill abusage. Sure, you can call CC-chaining “depth” if you want. But then it would be a half-baked version of actual “depth” because it favorites one side more than the other instead of having equal footing. Actual depth wouldn’t require a player to use specific gear or trinkets just to have a normal experience.

they are not the same effect though. Stuns dont break with dmg, you can use BoP in stuns for example or human trinket. Stuff like traps, poly and fear break with dmg. This is completely different and important to understand.

so you complain that you lose a 1vs2 situation? I dont understand it

its not a problem

CC adds another layer of outplay potential to the game.

in modern WoW pretty much every spec has alot of CC, your paladin too. Paladin is and was a very strong class especially in the last few years. You just dont know how to play your class in pvp. Thats it.

I mean in every pvp game you have to follow the meta to have success at high level. if you decide to not play trinket to get out of CC thats your problem lol.

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