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Punyelf-draenor · July 21, 2019, 2:17pm

What exactly are you classing as a loot box?

Hinklink-sylvanas · July 21, 2019, 2:21pm

Think he means: PVP rewards, weekly chest from M+, WQ’s chests, pretty much all gear from any source as it’s random which stats you get or sockets / warforge /titan etc. Think his problem is much like mine, you can’t target a build anymore.

Elaynne-ravencrest · July 21, 2019, 2:51pm

I don’t see any good reason for it to be removed. Raids give best items and u can target bosses and even bonus roll on them for stats u want. RNG was always part of WOW and should always be.

Ventheas-argent-dawn · July 21, 2019, 2:56pm

Got the timestamp for you, at which the presenter is talking about the gacha mechanic, which although stemming from Japan it is present in the West as well and we’ve been using it for a while now.

Here’s a bit of the transcript as well:

“(…) It’s really a lot more exciting and you get more content because people cannot immediately progress to the stuff they want. They have to keep trying a few times, so it really takes like 5 times as long to get the collection they need, compared to just progressing and collecting soft currency and buying it straight off.”

Whilst the video is titled "Let’s go whaling: Tricks for monetising mobile game players with free-to-play", these tips and tricks have been widely adapted to PC and Console games too of course

These industry-crushing practices are here to stay. If you wonder why there are no more PvP or PvE vendors selling gear for a badge system of sorts (soft currency) then this is your answer.

For full soul crushing I recommend watching the full video, it comes with brilliant gems such as:
“Make sure your games aren’t too skill based, I made that mistake myself.”

and

“Put morality aside for a bit, we can discuss it later”

Elaynne-ravencrest · July 21, 2019, 3:01pm

That doesn’t apply here. Blizzard doesn’t offer paid shortcuts. Thats about paid microtransactions.

Ventheas-argent-dawn · July 21, 2019, 3:04pm

No, Elaynne, you are wrong.

I find it hard to believe that you get hung up on the “microtransactions” part, as I explained in my post the gacha mechanic is alive and well in WoW.

Moreover these practices do not have to be carbon-copies of what is presented in the workshop. You can custom tailor models to better suit your game’s needs… which is what happened. Because there are no more PvP or PvE vendors. Content becomes stretched, just as I quoted.

Weird that you think about defending such a practice and cherrypick that one thing to try and defend Blizzard’s obvious whaling practice

Elaynne-ravencrest · July 21, 2019, 3:05pm

I don’t think u understand this thread. Its about ingame mechanics.

Ventheas-argent-dawn · July 21, 2019, 3:07pm

Yes, I don’t think you understand the thread or the very game you are (maybe?) still playing.

WoW’s systems are fully entrenched in RNG lootboxes, which although aren’t directly purchased through real money, the lootbox system is alive and well in World of Warcraft. The in-game mechanics are pure lootbox.

Goldsmith-neptulon · July 21, 2019, 3:09pm

I don’t mind loot boxes, but I think to be more fun they should have an exalted reputation grind added to them before you can open them up. Might be a cool addition to the game.

Elaynne-ravencrest · July 21, 2019, 3:09pm

And thats a good thing as long as they don’t offer way to obtain them with money. Loot boxes aren’t an issue. Paid loot boxes are.

Ventheas-argent-dawn · July 21, 2019, 3:12pm

I disagree, I think the millions of players who quit the game didn’t do it because of lore reasons you know.

I quit the game because there are now RNG systems within RNG systems, and whilst not paid, you maybe get a lootbox which maybe contains gear which then is the slot you maybe need. I just described PvP for you. In rated PvP you get a lootbox for sure, but the other two levels of RNG remain

It’s a sad state for the game. It’s a sad state for any game.

Punyelf-draenor · July 21, 2019, 3:13pm

I don’t mind the weekly M+ chest/emissaries/paragons, it is just a bonus and I can see how it would be too powerful if we could target exactly what we needed.

I do miss the days of having a proper BiS list. These days I can rarely see if something is or isn’t an upgrade without simming.

RNG stats on crafted items have been a thing for a while now but that does make it frustrating. As did getting my benthic boots. Opening 30+ boot items before getting the right item with a socket before I was willing to waste pearls on upgrading.

I am not a fan of all the additional RNG in the game, I don’t find it exciting. With all the gear being thrown at players now from WQs and Emissaries I’m not sure that they need all this titanforging tbh.

Elaynne-ravencrest · July 21, 2019, 3:15pm

Just because you quit for some reason doesn’t mean millions quit for same reason. Last time for sure we know millions left was in WOD and there were no lootboxes then. They quit due to lack of content. However Legion was full on RNG and there were speculations that population risen over 10m. Maybe all those people returned cause of rng lootboxes? As long as its not paid lootboxes i love them.

Ventheas-argent-dawn · July 21, 2019, 3:27pm

Lootboxes were introduced in WoD.

But you are correct, they quit due to a lack of content, which is exactly what lootboxes artificially stretch. At some point the hamster wheel has to break.

The popularity of Legion… yes, much speculation, but too bad there’s no data to back it up. If they had returned to a quite historic milestone of 10m I think Blizz would’ve made some sort of statement.

If that was the case… where are they now. It’s even more lootboxes than in Legion

Shioban-draenor · July 21, 2019, 3:29pm

Agreed, seeing how my dps chars get tanking gears and my tanks get dps gears, yes very frustrating up to a point that i no longer feel like playing or bother at all with emissaries, not all the time but it has happened.

Plus, i can’t believe that ppl still believe in RNG, imo currently there’s no such thing as RNG on gear drops or gear from emissary boxes or even benthic gear.

Elaynne-ravencrest · July 21, 2019, 3:38pm

Those are catchup mechanics for alts to be able to do world content. Not for you to obtain bis gear from. If you want to target items go to heroic and mythic raids.

Leysmistakes-azjolnerub · July 21, 2019, 4:03pm

There are no RNG stats anymore, that was WoD.

You just have every stat combination available and complain about it. Because having the option of min maxing is apparently a bad thing.

Leysmistakes-azjolnerub · July 21, 2019, 4:16pm

Once again, there are no unknown stats. The Benthic items have specific stats. The M+ cache have items with specific stats across all dungeons. Even the PvP items have specific stats.

The caches just has all of them available within their respective pools, but you will never get a “Bloodfeaster Belt”, which normally drops in Underot, with stats different than Haste+Mastery.

Same goes for Benthic items. “Akana’s Reefstrider Footwraps” will always come with Haste+Mastery+stronger crits unique effect. You can never get the unique +critdmg effect in Leather boots with other stat combinations.

Dejarous-draenor · July 21, 2019, 4:27pm

People quit for all kinds of reasons, the themes can generally be thrown into a few buckets though.

Whats this about people joining because of lootboxes? Are you being intentionally dense and edgy or do you genuinely think its a likely possibility?

As to the vid, even though its not exactly the same (hence why you dismiss it) - there is a lot of cross over to wow, and thats not great. How you can’t see this is beyond me. Then again, I guess to work these business models need the unthinking “sheeple” to follow without question.

Loaken-argent-dawn · July 21, 2019, 4:57pm

The stats on the items may not change but the item appearing does.

It’s not as simple as targeting Bloodfeaster Belt in 10 because we all know it can be higher than 430 to be highest ilevel (and grab a socket or tiertery) so instead you’re reduced to targeting the dungeon in the hope it drops in the hope it titanforges the way you want it to. Similarly hoping the mythic chest drops it and it TFs up.

So whilst you can target it kind of, you can no longer work steadily for that bis you can only work steadily for the chance of it. This is a massive time increase over previous pre TF where you’d target bosses alone and put faith in drop chance RNG, but know within a month or so you’d see your piece. You could go the entire expo without seeing your truly bis this expo and I think that’s what people are referring to. It’s not a pain because it’s hard it’s a pain because it has nothing to do with skills and everything to do with multiple layers of luck. You can’t even push stupidly high keys for a higher chance of TF occurring which would make some sense.

I mean I don’t even have anything against tfing itself but I can see why people are saying it’s a contrived endgame gearing model because it asks less of skill and more of time which is a model that arguably suits those who benefit from our time in the game. If you make money based on people being here for months back to back you’d probably prefer an endgame gearing model that may well take them 6 months or more to complete than one they xpuld achieve in 3 months of focussed targeting because that’s twice as much revenue and the promise that it “may happen next time” is an addictive lure that keeps people coming back.