Please rework/buff Balance in TWW

Classes Druid
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Please look at the state of balance one of the worst classes in TWW. Somehow in current Live retail balance is doing more dmg/ feels better to play then in TWW. The talent nodes are literally bad.

Our eclipses are shorter witch makes it weird to play you have 15 seconds to cast all your 3 Moons it takes like 5 seconds to do all of them and then to have time for a 4 seconds convoke cast some starsurges, cast starfall and not overcap on astral power feels really bad etc. I love the idea that our “burst” button got finally to 2 min but make it better.

Moonfire and Sunfire: why can’t you cast moonfire on all targets and it’s still target cap its a bad design to play with make sunfire and moonfire the same so when you are actually doing mythic plus you can use 2-3 globals and start doing your rotation and do damage and not casting moonfire 10-20 times or merge thouse 2 spells togheter. The rampu is really slow and it should be faster to feel better…

Using convoke is cool but in fact being random and in some instances you cast 5 Trashes or 5 regrowth instead of having 5 full moons is a bad design. A damage ability should be fun to use and actually do damage.

Keeper of the grove hero talent we actually don’t wanna be a summoner class having Trees on our side with mushrooms is such a bad design… Also mushrooms should be astral damage to fix the actual burst problem where other classes in 2 seconds are doing 2 million DPS we are doting more dots!

In whole the Talent nodes instead of giving us an extra “power” they are more utility based where as an DPS you want DPS as an Healer you want Heal etc.

Also not having a big defensive button to survive big damage is also a bad design “but you have bear form” we have bear form but what other classes are sitting in a 2-3 globals just to “survive” and waiting for the healer to heal us so we can waste another global to start doing damage :frowning: …
I really want this class to be viable and fun that’s why I am pointing this issues.

148 Likes
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Yeah seeing the early numbers for balance compared to others is really shocking needs a good fix before release

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I do agree, it does seem on the weaker side of the current classes in the Beta, from what I have seen on both VoDs and seeing current ingame numbers, they just don’t seem able to keep up with most of the other “Meta” classes that are set for TWW.

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Yes, even if they “tune it” so it makes the same damage as a “meta” class it still will feel bad to play…

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Not to be a crab in the bucket, but y’all were S-tier across entirety of Dragonflight. In Beta, number tunings aren’t final and everything’s subject to change.

I do find it strange how this post gets 100+ upvotes whereas Feral concerns on this forum get nearly no traction, even though Feral as a spec has been massively underpowered throughout Dragonflight. Are you using alts to upvote your thread, because that’s dishonest and undermines your concerns.

Personally I’d be fine if Keeper of the Grove doubled down on a summoner class with nature spells and Elune’s Chosen was the cosmic caster with planetary destruction. Unfortunately, I don’t feel like Keeper of the Grove even succeeds in that, as the Force of Nature spell itself is awful and clunky, and no amount of extra supporting Hero Talents tacked on it will make it better.

Balance has always been a spec that favours longer combat times due to ramp needed as opposed to burstier classes, but with a lower AoE cap. On Beta, what numbers are you even looking at? Heroic dungeon DPS? Obviously Balance will do poorly as it’s not a high M+ key where mobs actually live for longer than seconds.

This is not a uniquely Balance problem, though. And you’ll have Fluid form to alleviate the global problem, on top of Balance already favouring the right side of the class tree.

If Blizzard’s going to make Balance S-tier again, I hope Feral will also get a reason to be invited into any PvE content. Or perhaps Balance can take a seat on the bench and Ferals get invited to content instead?

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Must’ve taken you ages to love your own post that many times lol. That being said, I agree. My favourite spec gameplay wise has become garbanzo.

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Okay, you played a different dragonflight then we all did here. and crying about feral on my post about balance its hella weird… And also if a class is good 1 season that means the next season or expansion should be trash ? Use your brain please

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Been playing this game since wrath and this “x spec was good last season y spec should be good this season and x should be bad” is cringe. Feral needs love, but it doesnt have to be at the expense of balance, they can try and do both. If someone shares feedback you shouldn’t put it down because you think it was good in dragonflight, clearly the spec isnt fun to play and he isnt suggesing just numbers buffs

3 Likes
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because of twink army bro :joy:

theres alone 4 different chars with Arnvior in the name what liked the post, and allot of low level twinks

yes he does

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Its a feature they have why should I not take it in consideration ? And using this method maybe a Blizzard employee is seeing the post and works on it !? Also is more like my guild then my alts

1 Like
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No, and I also responded to their suggestions as well, which they haven’t responded to My main gripes were simply with them using alts to gain more traction on their post when other specs that didn’t even get a spot in the limelight that Balance have got. But I do agree that it is cringe - I admitted as much as I didn’t want to be a crab in a bucket.

Because your disingenous way of gaining traction is the reason I wrote my post to begin with. You’re just one person, and your opinion matters just as much as anyone else’s - mine, others’, and so on. Inflating your like count makes it seem like your opinion is much preferred to any other’s.

Many specs are in a rough spot right now and again - not to be a crab in a bucket - I’d just like to have some of the spotlight that you’ve enjoyed. Feral already has had to deal with negative impressions from past expansions of not being good for any sort of pugging. Do I see any of the Feral feedback threads on here get any sort of attention? No. Don’t hog up the spotlight.

Like, what is your proposed solution to your non-tuning wishes? That Balance would be able to immediately cast Moonfire on everyone in an AoE pack like Shadow Crash for Shadow Priests? Is your feeling that Balance sucks in TWW based on vibes from Heroic dungeons, a content difficulty Balance often performs poorly in because you need time to ramp, leading to Balance performing much better in higher keys.

What Dragonflight did you play? S1, S3, S4 Balance is top tier for M+. S2 less so, sure - I didn’t play S2 and barely any S1, but thankfully Raider IO has the stats. If your spec is S-tier, naturally with low gear in Beta you’re going to feel a whole lot worse than you at your best gear as a meta spec.

Just really weird to lament the state of your spec and use an alt army to massively upvote it when there are other specs in just as rough spots.

1 Like
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Another problem is, on Beta, that AP generation is running rampant.

So while dmg is low we are forced to dump AP outside eclipse due to high AP generation.

So apart from low tuning, the mechancis are not working either.

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Because your disingenous way of gaining traction is the reason I wrote my post to begin with. You’re just one person, and your opinion matters just as much as anyone else’s - mine, others’, and so on. Inflating your like count makes it seem like your opinion is much preferred to any other’s.

First as I wrote here already I used 2-3 alts the rest is my guild and druid balance discord. 2nd Blizzard is looking at all post don’t need to be jealous here. 3rd Make a post about feral if you feel like its bad and post it on Feral discord to have some traction …

Many specs are in a rough spot right now and again - not to be a crab in a bucket - I’d just like to have some of the spotlight that you’ve enjoyed. Feral already has had to deal with negative impressions from past expansions of not being good for any sort of pugging. Do I see any of the Feral feedback threads on here get any sort of attention? No. Don’t hog up the spotlight.

Stop crying and make a post as I said.

Like, what is your proposed solution to your non-tuning wishes? That Balance would be able to immediately cast Moonfire on everyone in an AoE pack like Shadow Crash for Shadow Priests? Is your feeling that Balance sucks in TWW based on vibes from Heroic dungeons, a content difficulty Balance often performs poorly in because you need time to ramp, leading to Balance performing much better in higher keys.

I played already balance in higher keys and in raid in the TWW trust me I know what I am talking about and what am I suggesting is right there in the post!

What Dragonflight did you play? S1, S3, S4 Balance is top tier for M+. S2 less so, sure - I didn’t play S2 and barely any S1, but thankfully Raider IO has the stats. If your spec is S-tier, naturally with low gear in Beta you’re going to feel a whole lot worse than you at your best gear as a meta spec.

Just really weird to lament the state of your spec and use an alt army to massively upvote it when there are other specs in just as rough spots.

So again you played a different Dragonflight on the wowlogs where everyone has access to it you see more ferals on top then actual balance. Balance was not an S tier neither in m+ neither in mythic raiding. As per your logs you did not do any. Stop trying to lie here and cry about you being attack by this post. If you want your class to be fixed or helped do it on your own forum post. I don’t understand crying with 0 facts and just blaming here will bring you more happiness ?

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People really are pathetic, at times. There is no where in the ToS that it says you cannot upvote your own comment on alts, an additional issue I have is they say he upvoted his own comment more than 100 times? when the max amount of characters you can have on a single account is 60…? even if they are all alts, you cannot just make an alt to upvote and then delete it as it will disappear.

The guy clearly has an issue, people agree and want to get an idea or a better thought to fix an issue a clear issue with someone who is passionate about their class. even if so this forum is about talking about your issues, and wanting peoples ideas / suggestions on the topic.

Ascendancy linked a good forum that shows the class changes people are looking at and agreeing with; https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druids/1870405/220

I do not see why people are mass reporting for unwarranted reasons.

2 Likes
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I don’t understand all the hate here, but fully agree, the class should not be performing at such a low standard in comparison to other classes. Please balance balance

2 Likes
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No problem that guy got removed from here also here is an amazing post about changing the talent three: Feedback: Druids - #46 by Åurõra-blackmoore

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A lot of people also complain about the Eclipse system needing a rework cause casting SF in ST and Wrath in AoE just feels bad. Also we’ve seen a ton of tuning issues where in the past just casting Wrath 24/7 even in Lunar Eclipse was a DPS advantage or was DPS neutral. Now we have again a problem where Wrath seems so strong that we don’t even wanna use Starsurges while playing Keeper of the Grove.

So let’s make a new Eclipse system!
Eclipse System - Lunar / Solar Empowerment

Lunar Empowerment:
Casting Wrath empowers Starfire, stacking up to 5 times, at 5 stacks Starfire becomes Lunar Strike.
Lunar Strike: +50% damage, instant cast, +100% AP gain.

Solar Empowerment:
Casting Starfire empowers Wrath, stacking up to 5 times, at 5 stacks Wrath becomes Solar Strike.
Solar Strike: +50% damage, instant cast, +100% AP gain, 50% AoE damage.

Solar and Lunar Strike should have new visuals. This creates a basic game loop where we want to every 5 casts use the other spell. The talents below will add a bit more to this simple system.

Talents and Skills

  1. Empowered Strikes:
    Effect: Casting Lunar Strike empowers the next 2 Wraths to deal 25% more damage and cast 50% faster. Casting Solar Strike empowers the next 2 Starfires similarly.

Reason: Makes the whole thing flow a bit nicer. More emphasize that one empowers the other. Makes it easier to get stacks back up to 5.

  1. Eclipse Stacking:
    Effect: Casting Lunar/Solar Strike increases the damage of Starsurge/Starfall for 15 seconds, stacking up to 99 times, with stacks falling off over time like Ironfur.

Reason: Creates a mini game where we wanna stack this buff as high as possible before the stacks start falling off. The RNG talents below can help us get to high amount of stacks with a bit of luck. Makes sure that Starsurge/Starfall scales with this whole system.

  1. Astral Efficiency:
    Effect: Casting Lunar/Solar Strike reduces the AP cost of Starsurge/Starfall for a certain number of casts or seconds. Can be synced with Eclipse Stacking or a choice node, get more DMG on finishers or get a ton of finishers.

Reason: Can help us speed up the whole back and forth chain if needed. With the talents below I think this system will be fast enough, but this gives us an additional effect we could tune up / down to speed up or slow down the whole system.

  1. Eclipse Surge:
    Effect: Casting Lunar/Solar Strike has a chance not to consume Lunar/Solar Empowerment, allowing for multiple strikes in a row.

Reason: Getting those OMG moments where you win the lottery and get 10 strikes in a row.

  1. Celestial Harmony:
    Effect: A chance equal to your mastery to instantly gain Lunar Strike after casting Solar Strike, or vice versa, enabling fluid back-and-forth casting.

Reason: Strenghtening the feeling of we go from Day to Night to Day, from Solar to Lunar to Solar.

  1. Critical Empowerment:
    Effect: Wrath and Starfire critical hits generate 2 stacks of Lunar or Solar Empowerment, adding crit scaling to the rotation.

Reason: Mainly a way to speed up the whole back and forth loop and add some scaling to make crit a better stat and make us scale better into the expansion.

  1. Overflowing Empowerment:
    Effect: Increase the stack limit for Lunar/Solar Empowerment to 15. However, Lunar/Solar Strike still consumes and benefits from only 5 stacks per cast.

Reason: Allow us to overstack, make overstacking not feel bad, allow to stack up on this last mob in this pull to start the next pull with 2-3 big strikes. Helping Moonkins be a little bit more bursty when they want. Plays nice with Eclipse Stacking, Astral Efficiency, Eclipse Surge, Celestial Harmony.

  1. Astral Convergence:
    Effect: Starsurge and Starfall generate 1 stack of both Lunar and Solar Empowerment.

Reason: Starsurge / Starfall as Astral generate one stack of each. Makes sure spenders stay important even if we end up with a build where fillers are stronger than spenders (like Keeper of the Grove).

  1. Astral Chain:
    Effect: Casting multiple Starsurges/Starfalls in succession increases the empowerment stacks incrementally (1st cast gives 1 stack, 2nd gives 2 stacks, etc.), up to a limit of 3 stacks.

Reason: Encourage a playstyle where we want to bank AP and release all at once. Also keeps spenders relevant even if tuning might be off for filler vs spender DMG.

  1. Incarn:
    Effect: All abilities generate double Lunar/Solar Empowerment stacks.

Reason: Go crazy moment where we constantly have Lunar / Solar Strikes happening, Starsurges / Starfalls happening, one procing the other etc.

  1. Starbound
    Effect: Instantly grants 5 stacks of both Lunar and Solar Empowerment. 1-2 minute cooldown.

Reason: On demand Lunar / Solar Strikes when needed. Say we need to burst AoE now and we just used our Strikes.

On top of this we can add simple talents that can be easily balanced out like:

  1. Powerful Strikes
    Solar Strike deals 50% more splash, Lunar Strike deals 50% more DMG to the main target. With this we can easily buff / nerf ST and AoE DMG.

  2. Bountiful Strikes
    Lunar / Solar strike give 100% more AP. Let’s Blizzard easily increase / decrease AP generation.

  3. Double Eclipse - Equilibrium
    Landing Solar and Lunar Strike within 5secs of each other causes an additional Astral Strike to hit your main target. Deals AoE astral DMG. If we wanna add more skill to the gameplay and make keeping stacks up evenly reward you. Or if you have both Lunar and Solar Strike active your next strike you pick becomes Astral Strike doubling it’s bonuses and granting 5 Empowered Strikes for Wrath and Starfire (more DMG + faster casts)

At first glance the system seems very simple, but quickly with just a few different talents we can make the system a lot more complicated, add minigames / mini rotations, add some planning, make it super fast or super slow depending on what we want.

Solar / Lunar Strike do pretty much the same thing - AoE DMG, Instant Cast, grant more AP, we could try to differentiate them a little bit. The strikes themselves don’t really matter, more that we have a gameplay loop / rotation that seems to flow back and forth no matter if you are doing ST or AoE with some OMG moments happening.

1 Like
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That’s an amazing idea to have balance a much more awesome class. I don’t like the long cast of the full moon too. Now on retail live you can crit up to 1.5 million dmg with a 3 seconds cast while a warlock is casting a 1 second chaos bolt hitting the same or even more. Balance should be reworked and made fun to play and also they need to listen to the community… I posted 2 forum post with in depth talents changes and more just to implement them to test them and to finally change the class… The survivability is the worst too they need to fix this if not it will be a bad start for TWW.

Even if they buff the Damage so for example the class will be “S tier” damage wise it is still bad to play. You need to have fun when playing a class. I care about this class and that’s why I am here saying my feedback!

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