Post Nerf Raid Content

WoW Classic The Burning Crusade Classic
1

Greetings, fellow travelers. As we embark upon the third iteration of The Burning Crusade, we must address the elephant in the room: the purpose of this relaunch. We are no longer pioneers in an unknown land; we are tourists in a landscape of nostalgia.

To that end, I propose that the developers embrace a post-nerf philosophy from the outset. This expansion should not be a grueling test of endurance, but a celebration of the era—facilitating the acquisition of that elusive gear which escaped our grasp in years past. For those yearning for ‘hardcore’ complexity, the modern ‘Retail’ landscape offers Mythic+ and high-tier raiding as the appropriate venues for such rigor.

Furthermore, given our accelerated timeline, an increase in loot yields is not merely a luxury—it is a necessity. Items of high contention, such as the Dragonspine Trophy, should be made accessible via Heroic Badges. Let us bypass the toxicity of loot disputes and focus on the joy of the journey. I anticipate the usual dissent from the ‘hardcore’ vanguard, but I suspect the silent majority craves a seamless, rewarding experience over unnecessary stress.

9 Likes
2

I agree to a point.

Items shouldn’t be gatekept indefinitely, but what’s the replayability if the chance of sweet loot dropping is moved behind a grindable currency? No one would run gruul/mag anymore.

I would be behind moving previous tier raids to a daily lockout like heroics. Example:
We’re grinding out SSC/TK weekly, you now have the option to throw in a gruul/mag pug daily at a chance of getting upgrades and those prestigious items, you’re no longer waiting for one chance per week. Gruul & Mag actually take less time than most heroics anyway.

I think this change would drastically increase peoples chances of aquiring those prestigious items, and keep the raid scene healthy.

1 Like
3

disgusting.

Just tell us you are bad at a solved 20 year old game and move on.

2 Likes
4

“Hardcore” Vanguard? What do we refer to you as then? The entitled vanguard?

Listen we get it, you want all the best gear to be handed to you instantly on reaching level 70 with little effort on your part so you can raid log or go play another game - you ain’t really in it for the journey at all or rather you want the journey to end just as fast as it begun. Part of the spirit of Classic is no personal loot (Like you mentioned theres retail for that with varying degrees of difficulty) and NOT getting your hands on every item - you don’t always get to have every item and that’s fine. My suggestion is you go back to retail, adios pal.

People trying to justify why changes are necessary because they can’t get 1 item (DST) is truly hilarious.

5

I sit somewhere in the middle, if we weren’t on an accellerated timeline, i’d be more inclined to completely side with “no changes” but as this TBC is short lived, I think lowering the lockout from weekly to daily or even 3/4 days similar to ZG would be more fitting for old content.

6

Sloth and entitlement. You can get all these items your goblin heart desires by one shotting all the bosses on retail. If you really want to celebrate the era then you would want it to be as hard as it was back then.

1 Like
7

Where as I know what giving someone full BiS generally does to guilds and attendance - got to give people a reason to show up. People are talking about TBC being on an accelerated timeline like it’s going to be done and dust next week as if Gruuls Lair isn’t going to be available all the way through P2/3/4 and 5 and as if not getting 1 item is the end of the world.

How many people are currently sitting on near full BiS currently? I’d say at least most of my guild are sufficiently geared enough - sure some missing a few big ticket items but that’s what keeps them signing up and showing to raids that they have upgrades to strive towards - give everyone the option to hit full BiS within a few weeks and they will stop playing until the next phase starts.

8

I hear you, I don’t think current tier content should be changed, at all.

I do advocate for previous tier raids to be more accessible though. I personally think hitting a mag & gruul twice a week would be fun. More chance to parse, more chance to improve kill times etc etc.

9

Replayability is good but not when it comes in the form of everyone doing it for a chance on 1 item. This is just bad loot design. They should put some raid gear on the badges, as well as primal nether and other similar stuff, and then make previous tiers drop badges. That way there’s an incentive to run older content for freshly levelled characters as well as geared people, and you don’t get the ridiculous situation of 15 reserves on the same item.

This system has been thoroughly tested in SoD and it was an overwhelming success

10

As someone who mains Warrior and played Warrior in 2007, 2021 and currently in TBCC I have never looted DST. You don’t need DST to play TBC, you don’t need DST to parse, you don’t need DST, it is a rare and special item and there is nothing wrong with it staying that way.

I don’t want DST for badges. TBC is fantastic as it is, the pre-raid gearing availability is masterfully done for most specs and the badge catchup is also fantastic, there is no issue.

1 Like
11

I don’t think TBC needs to be “modernized” into a smoother, faster loot conveyor belt. The whole reason people come back to it is because it is not Retail. Its pacing, friction, progression walls, and coveted drops are part of the identity of the expansion.

Starting from a post-nerf philosophy would flatten that identity immediately. Early TBC was not designed around everyone conveniently collecting the pieces they missed the first time. Some items were rare, some bosses were demanding, and some guilds had to work through loot tension and roster issues. That was part of the ecosystem, not a design flaw to be patched out in advance.

And putting items like Dragonspine Trophy on a badge vendor would be exactly the kind of change that makes the world feel less authentic. At that point, you are not preserving TBC, you are replacing it with a retrospective theme park version of TBC, where the sharp edges have all been filed down because they might inconvenience someone.

Yes, the timeline may be accelerated. That does not mean the answer is to dissolve progression and scarcity. It just means players will have to make choices, prioritize, and accept that not every character will walk away with every iconic item. That was true back then too.

If people want constant accessibility, low friction gearing, and difficulty tuned around modern sensibilities, those games already exist. TBC should be allowed to remain TBC. Not every re-release needs to apologize for what it originally was.

1 Like
12

First they should fix the problem with arena gear requirements. It is unbelievable that in this tryhard community only 1% is able to get full pvp gear. 1%! Anniversary should not be about tryharding as you said, but rather enjoying the game… There is no world where being top 1% is even relatively close to just being an “enjoyer” of this game. Fixes are needed.

13

I cant understand people who want nerfed content? Its no nostalgia if you never wipe?

Also you just dont like raiding kind of I guess since we spend like 100s of hours to ding a character to 70 and find gold for epic mount, enchants, gems, consumables etc itd.

And in the raid we spend what 30 minutes weekly to kill Gruul & Mag (having a for fun guild with 0 tryhards) and 1,5h up to 2h for Karazhan (having 3 teams). So basically people dont want to raid and be in a raid if they want to spend 30 min as a guild being 25 ppl but love spending 40h a week on gurglin around on alts, farming something or doing insts for alt preBIS etc itd.

Like people just dont like to raid or what is the reason for bring faster raids and then “bring speedrunners” and change the way of doing the raid. Its not nostalgia to rush stuff braindead with the goal being to do it fastest possible. Its much more fun if it takes a little more time and is actually the same challenge we werent able to do 20 years ago as kids (and watched for example Nihilum killing it back then).

14

Unnerfed raids are a non-starter. It will kill the majority of TBCA guilds, they are full of gamer dads used to farm nerfed T4 for 2 hours per week. Throwing them against pre-nerf kael and vashj would just be cruel and pointless sadism.

And for the other point, I thought the sidereal/scourgestone system from wrath classic was an excellen catch-up mechanic. With some tweaks it could be implemented here too. Run beefed up heroics (and pre nerf t4?) for special currency that buys you pervious tier gear from a vendor.

4 Likes
15

My guild is not used to wiping. I’m pretty sure that we won’t endure any kind of long progression. We almost broke apart in AQ40 and we broke in Naxx. So if these raids were to be released in any kind of hard form, that would just repeat and I will have to find another guild or struggle with pugs. I’d rather not to. So that’s a single simple reason I’d prefer simple raids. That’s just my personal preference.

1 Like
16

Well how did they manage to level to 70 and find gold for gems n stuff if they cant bother to raid for more than 30 min in 25 man content (its what it takes to kill Gruul + Mag as totally for fun guild)

As for pugs its what happens and the RNG becomes a problem people talk about on forums. If everyone stays in a guild then everyone gets all the loot sooner or later but if people keep just pugging then its really full RNG and some ppl might actually end up getting nothing then blaming Classic for not being retail.

As for the raids maybe for totally fresh ppl who experienced retail only before its cool with nerfed raids just as SOD was cool for them. But like most ppl played this stuff as kid and would like to get something of the old experience.

Like if U were 8-14 and couldnt kill a boss does it make any sense to kill it now with its legs n arms bound behind its back? Its not a real kill then? Like you know you can kill the real thing but you get something that doesnt feel as actually doing the thing you couldnt in the past.

In the end you never get to kill the real thing neither as kid or as adult or ever because some fresh people coming from retail probably somehow boosted their chars (also 58 to 70 and ask them where from gold) if they cant spend some time with guildies doing the raid but they had to spend 100s of hours to get their level and preBiS (unless they got everything in some strange way not Blizz approved).

PS. I was in the past very happy that GDKP got removed and thought it would make more ppl join guilds in Classic. But as it is now I wish they let it be so the “pay2win” people could just get boosted to their item by tryhards and so the whole rest can have the intended challenge of doing a raid for some hours in the week (since its much more fun than leveling another alt n doing the preBiS farm again and again). Because those ppl just want free item cause they got “4 wifes, 10 kids and 20 jobs” so let them just get it. Also since they want personal loot and remove RNG then I wouldnt mind if blizz made paid itemshop so ppl who want items just go buy them n done BiS so they get more time for their kids but dont change content for the rest.

17

yes everyone should be forced into paralympics because modern dei says everyone has to be able to clear and achieve everything despite putting in no effort. just raid finder my sh’t up i hope we see more fat characters in wow too

1 Like
18

To that end, I propose that the developers embrace a post-nerf philosophy from the outset.

No thanks…

This expansion should not be a grueling test of endurance, but a celebration of the era

  1. A week or two of progression is pretty moderate in MMO terms.
  2. What exactly is being celebrated if you strip away the challenge? It’s not like they nerfed any content in Classic…

facilitating the acquisition of that elusive gear which escaped our grasp in years past.
For those yearning for ‘hardcore’ complexity, the modern ‘Retail’ landscape offers Mythic+…

If celebration just means quickly collecting gear and clearing raids with minimal resistance…then why dont YOU log retail and clear these raids instantly…and collect all loot for yourself.

Furthermore, given our accelerated timeline, an increase in loot yields is not merely a luxury—it is a necessity.

I agree.

Items of high contention, such as the Dragonspine Trophy , should be made accessible via Heroic Badges.

No, why? You don’t NEED DST to play well. You don’t NEED to have fully BiS on a theoretically level just to clear raids or…what? Parse?

Should Warglaives be buyable from vendor? If no, why not? I never got those back in original TBC, and according to your philosophy I should get them: “facilitating the acquisition of that elusive gear which escaped our grasp in years past.”

Let us bypass the toxicity of loot disputes and focus on the joy of the journey

The joy of TBC is to clear raids, with your guild, that are more difficult and has more mechanics than the Classic ones.

You want to celebrate the memory of success, while trying to remove the conditions that made that success feel good in the first place…

Why on Earth would you think:

  • Easier raids
  • More loot
  • Buyable rare/contested items

Is a good combination? Pick one.

And let’s be honest: raids are already so easy by today’s standards that you could take pre-nerf encounters and buff them.

1 Like
19

id love to see that

20

even bad at a 2k year old solved game like chess

1 Like