Isn’t that even more of a reason to have RDF instead?
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Why?
If it’s easy to form the groups yourself, why would you need a tool to automate that for you?
As it has been said, that way other players would become basically discardable NPC’s for you. There is basically no consequence of removing someone from the party and quitting doesn’t really have any long term effects either, you just get a 30 min debuff.
Ion said it himself in an interview, you are more patient with people if removing them has consequences. Yes, it might take 30 mins to find a healer or a tank. After you finally made it to the dungeon and a bad pull wipes the team you’ll have to think twice about kicking someone since it means you’ll have to get back to town and find someone new.
With RDF all you have to do is kick and wait for someone new to get thrown into the group. Replacing a DPS is almost instant.
Since the dungeons are so forgiving, rolling a healer or tank can be an option too, if you have difficulties finding a group, which would at least help reduce the lack of said role’s.
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I agree with the points, I think one could have expected the opposite effect if BGs were premade only (aka non-automate).
Currently the BG systems are fully automated, meaning people just sign up and get tossed in a random group (much how LFD works or would have worked). What have been the historical results?
- A bunch of players are fully AFK or semi-AFK watching their other screen.
- The communication is mostly toxic with insults and fingerpointing.
- People becomes less dedicated when its hard because they know a new randomized groups is waiting when/if they lose (“Lose fast”).
One can ask himself if these players would have acted this way if they acually had to make a effort to join a BG, if they would act the same knowing that they will have to redo the effort (find a group to join) and have a harder time doing it (due to them not being anonymous) if they where removed for their bad behaviour or lack of effort.
The number of total BGs would have been lower, but the quality I bet would be higher. Only saying “3 Allies LM” is in that context (with the effort being put in before that) not a argument for it being “non-social”.
The same could be said about LFD.
I however will acknowledge the problem of non-meta classes being left out (would have been the case in my scenario aswell) and that gear would have been a higher threshold.
These are for me the biggest counter-argument for the removal of LFD, they can however be by-passed if non-meta classes (if that becomes a thing) and less geared people start their own groups and put in the effort - if they can skip Netflix/Youtube on the other sceen for a second.
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And when was that if I may ask?
Because in my experience with tbcc you’ll be incredibly lucky to even have got a group together withing 40 mins.
I’ll just link this again:
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Because RDF makes it way faster, and since it’s a queue you know exactly how long it’s going to take to get into or form a group the moment you enter the system.
You can’t kick somebody within the first 15 mins anyway
And that’s part of why I’ve been sticking to raids more in TBC. Dungeons just were not worth the hassle for the most part.
I just don’t care about this “loss of social experience” that you seem so concerned with because I never seeked it in dungeons in the first place - at least not at max level, when raids become available as a superior choice.
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Nothing’s fun about having to spam in LFG “LF tank for X dungeon” for 30 minutes…
LFD mostly brings positives.
There’s barely any negatives at all.
People saying “social” part is a negative is completely wrong.
– I join a dungeon in TBC > Hi > No talking throughout dungeon > gg > done.
That’s very social /s
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That’s if you’re really lucky. I’ve had plenty of times there I’ve had to try for 1 hour, 2 hours, even 3 hours sometimes… and then the group breaks up cause no tank…
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3.0-3.2, all through the patches, even on a small server like Arathor.
Exactly! I do like to chat with the guild while I play WoW. The biggest social aspect in WoW for me is the guild. And I don’t need to do dungeons with the guild, to socialise with the guild, while running dungeons.
I like to chat in guild chat about my run. I share my experience with them. Or sometimes I chat with the group I run with, but that’s rather rare.
I still like to run dungeons with different people, even though if I don’t necessarily chat with them, I still get to know different play styles and maybe I learn a trick here and there.
Raiding is something I rather do with the guild. Because in a raid you work with your guild towards a common goal. Dungeons are to short and easy for this.
But if I am benched at the guild, I also enjoy raiding with a PUG. Because again I get another viewpoint and maybe I learn something that might help in the next guild run.
Just because I have never been invited to the tanks wedding, I don’t think I am an anti social player. In fact I think I am more social than most anti-RDF people.
I just hate to waste time for useless activities. Building groups is a huge time sink. It takes longer to build groups than to actually run the dungeon. And it doesn’t add any value to the game.
If somebody said: “Here is a button you can press to get all the loot from the dungeon.” I wouldn’t do it. It might save time, but it removes game value.
The RDF doesn’t do anything like this. Group building time is just wasted time for me. And every minute I spend building groups is one minute I don’t play the game I pay for.
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Amazing that you remember that so precisely from ~14 years ago…
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There’s also the fact that PuG raids, especially the kind formed on Discord channels, tend to be attended by regular people, which helps forming social bonds etc. (that, and the fact people in raids use voicechat - Idr the last time I’ve seen a dungeon pug use voicechat lol)
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Four hours is my sad record. If at least all the work would pay out in the end, but I ended up disbanding the group more often, than I ended up in the dungeon.
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Believe what you want. I personally doubt anyone spending 4 hours forming a group for a single dungeon.
You can doubt as much as you want. This is what happened.
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Yea exactly. Believe what you want. You anti-RDF people seems to be really good at that.
This is what I have ben experienced throughout tbcc. And I’m done with it.
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Bye, can I have your gold?
He says as blizzard removes arena teams, turning pvp into retail that goes like:
spam for 20 minutes your “5413841 XP from 15 expansions ago” macro, invite someone, play 1 game, leave because hair on their character wasnt your favourite colour …
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Yep, I rarely create groups anymore.
I can on my healer, but on my dps alts?
Not a chance, I don’t want to keep spamming every 20-30 seconds to try find a tank+healer.
Only for other dps to leave as they’re not wanting to wait 30minutes - 1 hour+ as well.
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Yes and we did not have these things until ICC 
- Summoning Stones: To use any Summoning stone, a character must be at least level 15. There is no maximum level to use these meeting stones.
- Health and Mana Regeneration: These regeneration rates have been increased up to 200% for low level characters. As the character level increases, regeneration rates gradually decrease, until returning to normal rates at level 15.
- Troll and Orc shaman totems now have their own unique appearance.
- Nerfed Oculus
- The distance at which these health bars are visible to players has been increased by 40 yards. (oh wait, isn’t already enabled on TBC ?
) - The speed of improving the Norfendre reputations has been increased by approximately 30%.
Yes and we did not have these things until ToC
- Cast duration to summon any ground mount is now 1.5 seconds, down from 3 seconds.
- The skill Apprentice Rider (75) can now be learned at level 20 for 4 gold. A letter will be sent to characters reaching level 20 to direct them to the riding master.
Companion Rider skill (150) can now be learned at level 40 for 50 gold. A letter will be sent to characters reaching level 40 to send them again to the riding master.
The Expert Rider skill (225) can now be learned at level 60 for 600 gold from Honor Hold or Thrallmar masters. Faction discounts are now applied (Honour Hold for the Alliance, Thrallmar for the Horde). Flight speed at this skill level increased to 150% of run speed from 60%.
Artisan Rider Skill (300): Faction discounts are now applied (Honor Hold or Valor Expedition for the Alliance, Thrallmar or Warsong Offensive for the Horde).
To continue harmonizing the number of mounts available for purchase for each race, a new 60% speed ground mount has been added for night elves, and a new 100% speed ground mount has been added for Forsaken. - Object comparisons: by pressing the Shift key. while hovering over an item with the mouse now displays the stat differences from the currently equipped item in the corresponding slot.
- Portals have been added to Orgrimmar and Stormwind to lead players to the Stairs of Destiny at the Dark Portal.
- A new zeppelin dock has been added to Thunder Bluffs to allow Horde players easier travel to and from Orgrimmar.
- The local mail department got tired of walking so far each day to collect mail and decided to install a large number of new mailboxes in Stormwind, Undercity, Darnassus and Orgrimmar.
- All stackable potions are now stackable by 20.
Yes and we did not have these things until Ulduar
- All ground mounts can now swim without unhorsing their rider. Flying mounts still cannot swim and dismount their rider when entering water.
- DOUBLE SPEC
- Applying a glyph no longer requires being near a Lexicon of Power. The same rules apply for changing glyphs
- Players no longer need to complete the Nat Pagle, Extreme Angler quest to become Artisan Anglers. The quest rewards you with a special premium fishing rod. Players who have already completed this quest can visit Nat Pagle in Dustwallow Marsh to receive this new fishing rod.
RDF is not a RAID or a DUNGEON, it’s a mecanic/parameter like all i listed before.
You just want a CUSTOM WOTLK, you don’t like this game, go to Classic ERA and stop trying to ruin our game.
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You might want to read up on your arguments because we had some of those things at start of Wrath, like the summoning stones to mention the absolut first thing you mention and that is wrong. So i dont know where you are getting at with this.
But tbh i am fine with them using a patch progression as that is what i wanted with classic from the get go and was disapointed when we started with the latest patch.
The one who wants custom Wrath is you. If you wanted the “real” experience you would not want RDF because we played almost the entire thing without it. We had RDF during a content drought after Naxx, after Ulduar and after ToC. Then we had a year with ICC and RDF.
You are the one that is trying to ruin the game by implementing RDF to an expansion that played the majority of it and almost all of it’s real content without it.