To sum up:
- pvp is unplayable. Try queueing as dps in solo queue and tell me how long did it take to get in and how was your experience.
- m+ has pretty much stalemated to a halt. The time it takes to find a group is unreal and the depletion rate is fast. Also i really struggle to get invited on my alts that are not super fotm, its next to impossible really. I dont have 16 hours a day to sit in lfg
- no real pve content outside m+ or raiding. Nothing. No sense of progressing other than hard grinding crests. Lol i would prefer artefact grinds at this point.
- raiding is a disaster. Heroic is useless since you wont upgrade that gear unless you wanna grind even more. Mythic is also a disaster with guilds having roster problems and last few bosses unfun.
- guilds are either raid logging or not logging at all. Noone plays m+ and now noone even wants to log for weekly clear/vault.
- no item hunts. Nothing to look for ingame. No matter what i do, nothing can be achievable by me. I can’t farm my trinket, i cant farm my desired weapon, i cant farm anything. Everything is only hard rng at the vault. Even on alts i will never see what im looking for. Also what im looking for is dreadfully boring. Just a passive stat stick.
- half my talents or hero trees are plain passive or unfun or non working properly or plain horrible. On my alts i cant say ok great i ll play this over that to keep things fresh. My alts have offspecs that are horribly tuned also. this cuts down gameplay to even shorter
Big offenders also
- itemisation for offspecs : Lets say you dont like your mainspec anymore and you want to play you know , the other 2/3rds of your class. You cant . With so many gear level upgrades and how crazy expensive it is to upgrade your gear , you are looking at best to have offspec gear 2-3 months into the patch . I really miss when gear was just the item full stop. I could maintain gear for my offspecs at a decent pace
- Poor class balance and poor spec balance inside your class. If we disregard shaman this patch, most if not all classes dont have their other specs balanced enough to give you the chance to offspec and keep things fresh.
This leads us to an extreme stale and confined gameplay ability.Instead of having X classes and Y x Z specs to choose from , every season you are hard locked into a select few. THis is very important as it cuts down playtime by a ton. In other expansions i wouldnt even think to alt because i had so much gameplay time baked in my class and i would actively maintain and play all my specs into my class because they were all more or less viable and good. Now its a dice roll to EVEN have your mainspec viable. More often than not NOPE
11 Likes
Imagine all this, but now you’re an outlaw or sub rogue.
Bottom dps in m+ and PvP, mid in raid.
No raid or m+ utility.
Can’t 1v1 anyone in world PvP, forced to turn wm off in order not to be abused by literally everyone.
Your role in arena and shuffle is to install addons and track DRs and enemy cds to peel and cc at perfect moments to enable other real classes to win the game for you.
11.1 changes - every class has 10 paragraphs of text per spec, while all you get is 5 lines describing how they’re removing your mandatory PvP talents and give you 1 boring talent to compensate.
Huh?
2 Likes
Ah forgot to mention also some points
- Prune defensives , prune most if not all of them , barely leave 1 2 min for each class to be used SPECIFICALLY if you are really in a dire need. Prune self healing. If solo content folks or world quest specialists want self healing, then add a ZONE SPECIFIC ability ( example DF onhara plains zone which gave you extra abilities ) .Remove self healing from everyone that isnt tank or healer , and even on tanks give it a long cd . Make tanks bulwarks and unkillable via mitigation. Let them very very slowly bleed to death but no way in oneshots and no way in self healing . Exception to this should be BLood DK and blood dk ONLY.
- STOP designing uptime on powerful cooldowns. Bring back power to base rotation and have your cooldown actually feel a powerfull cooldown . Good example to this is enha shammy, base kit is powerful, builders spenders feel great and your 2 min cd feels absolutely great. Counter example is fire mage. you need to have a 50% uptime on combust nowadays to even do damage. this is BAD BAD design. combust should feel like a fire god and outside of that ofc you should drop lower but still do good damage because you are afterall a seasoned fire mage , not some noodle slapping specialist.
- Simplify gameplay for overdesigned specs , Example : Havoc is isnanely overdesigned and unfun. Good example is ret paladin . you can see which one is popular and which is not. Ret paladins are genuine FUN to play , Havoc on the other hand is for the crowd that thrives in pain and self inflicted punishment.
1 Like
There isn’t anything to discuss as you’re right.
2 Likes
You do have some fair points, but a lot of those sound like:
- dps problems. If queues bother you, play as a healer or tank.
- garbage guild problems. Mine does both raiding and M+ all the time.
2 Likes
Why are you just posting the same bullet points in numerous threads?
It’s just a cut and paste from the “Siren Isle Is Garbage” and “I Will Also Timegate My Subscription” threads.
M+ definitely needs some spice, the dungeons should change way more often than every 6 months, how is this seasonal when it’s slower than calendar seasons?
The seasonal interval of games these days through season/battle passes etc. is like 2 months, why is WoW stuck`in traffic behind raid tiers for M+ seasons?
Also this is more of a personal opinion, but the first season of M+ should have at least all of the new dungeons. Imagine being a new or returning player and half of the main repeatable content isn’t related to the new expansion at all?
because a single post on a thread thats not about said topic can be lost. if there is more visibility to the points ,then a discussion can erupt around them or something similar and blizzard can see it easier.
I’ll add a few of my own:
Rewards
With 600+ mounts, 800+ pets, lord knows how many transmogrification items and titles and toys, I really don’t care for more.
I’m already happy with the way my character looks, the mounts I use, the pet army I’ve got, and the toys I have. I don’t need more, and I don’t care for more.
It’s a huge problem to me that practically every reward in the game that isn’t an item upgrade, is completely uninteresting.
Unless you are a collector, then all those mounts and transmogrification sets on The Siren Isle are rather meaningless.
And considering how the game has narrowed the gear progression down to a minimum, then you end up with a play experience where most stuff you complete in the game rewards nothing of value to you.
That to me is a huge problem.
Fantasy
“Behold Ragnaros - the Firelord! He who was ancient when this world was young! Bow before him, mortals! Bow before your ending!”
At its core, World of Warcraft is a fantasy game, and fantasy games are supposed to deliver epic fantasy moments.
This should be a larger-than-life experience where Blizzard really blows our minds away and creates some game experiences that are climatic in a way that no other games in no other genres can deliver.
But I’m not really getting that anymore.
If I think really hard, then the last time Blizzard really threw me off my chair was with the Argus encounter and the Sargeras cinematic in Legion. That was a fantasy experience on an epic scale. And it was 7 years ago.
Maybe others have different moments when they think about it, but fact of the matter is that these truly epic and memorable fantasy moments are getting very few and very far between.
The story has a way of being increasingly mundane and down-to-earth, and then it builds up toward something that isn’t very epic in scale, or when it is epic in scale it tends to be stupidly so or anti-climatic in execution.
Blizzard are fumbling here, and have fumbled for a number of years now I would say, and it’s not helping me stay excited for Warcraft.
2 Likes
So, don’t pug? Solves both issues.
But lots of players inevitably do PuG. Rejecting the reality of the game doesn’t change what it is.
3 Likes
What on earth are you on about? Yes they do pug, then accept the queue times, negative affect on the gameplay, etc. Or just find like-minded players and go with them…
The choice is in the players’ hands. If they refuse to use them, yeah, don’t shoot in your own foot and then cry that you’re bleeding.
They aren’t crying they are bleeding. They are blaming Blizzard.
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“So don’t pug ? 
” man , these solution comment always crack me up , ahh mb , all my guild people are not available 24/7 for me , mb i don’t have friends maybe in game ? , nah that’s just small details right ? 
.
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That’s the equivalent of saying that people with a drinking problem can just stop drinking, as if that somehow addresses the problem of alcoholism. It doesn’t.
That whole sentiment of “Just don’t do it then.” doesn’t really change the reality of the problematic circumstances.
Mythic+ clearly has some problems that extend beyond people’s own inclination to engage in the gameplay. That much should be evident by looking at the many many many threads with feedback about Mythic+.
2 Likes
no mate you are wrong here. I dont have much of a choice NOT to pug. most people this season i know dont wanna do m+ anymore. guild barely logs for weekly vault fillup most of the time 1 slot or 4 , but never pushing.
i add people when i pug if i enjoyed playing with them, but they 2 appear to not log so much anymore .
also i wish there was an ingame tool to recruit people for your team . guess what there isnt. The game itself does not help to find a guild or a m+ team.
I wish there was a system in your local tavern where you could post your “job” . like adventure posts in a DND campaign. where people can hang out and post their "adventure"so others can join em
It could be an awesome feature , like a bounty/adventure board. nicely designed interface , to easy navigate what you are looking for. hell it can even replace the dreadful crafting public order system. everyone would go into their local tavern ( which by the way is the core fantasy of a DND - RPG setting ) and hear stuff and see the local board .
Example -
Hey adventurers , we are a group of 3 and looking for 1 tank and 1 dps to fill up , we are pushing 14s . Send us an ingame mail or apply to this adventure board and lets do it
C’mon - you know most of that is noise. How do you decide what is good feedback in that noise and what isn’t?
People without irony propose “remove meta”, “ban people for leaving a key” and “remove timers”.
The system is far from perfect but at a stage things become social problems and not system problems. All of these people screeching “class doesn’t matter in a +8” will gatekeep the crap out of their own key making sure that they have x healer, a lust and a sprinkling of FOTM. They could be the change they want to see but naw.
I wish there was something for us to do.
Give us updated island expeditions , something to collect or aim for.
I’m reknown 25 with every faction. Delves are boring.
M+ seems to be a main thing only for players. No one wants to do them on alts.
The end game needs an end game. Something other than content players don’t wish to do anymore.
It’s just boring waiting every 7 days to see an upgrade
TWW is for me the worst expansion so far.
Chris Metzen told us to come home , we did and people are leaving it.
Maybe it’s copium but i’m really hoping they are putting everything into Midnight to be the next legion of Warcraft.
Even Shadowlands , I had stuff do every week , wether it was fun or not it , that’s debatable but it was still stuff to do.
If it wasn’t for legacy raid groups and some old content mount farming. I would have absolutely zero reasons to log in right now.
I am greatful classic fresh came along to make my sub acceptable.
Tww is frightfully underpar and they hoped the anniversary content would carry the season.
A bad signal to noise ratio doesn’t mean it’s all noise. And it would be arrogant to suggest it is.
Considering how the game has gone from 12 million players to evidently less than a million, I do wonder how long we should keep saying they are social problems before we perhaps acknowledge that the game has some design problems.
I mean, how many players do we inevitably have to show the door here on the forums before it’s only those left who like it the way things are? And how many are they?
I basically don’t give much for this pseudo faux form of nihilistic rhetoric that gets spouted more often around here. Rather than discussing the game on its own merit – its design and development – there’s a tendency toward placing the burden on the player.
“Just quit if you don’t like it. You can just leave. Just ignore it. Don’t like it, don’t do it.”
That kind of rhetoric is so prominent these days, and it’s weak, because it shows an unwillingness to take the game’s side. I mean, if you’re going to be a fanboy and defend the game, then damn well do it properly.
It’s not an argument in favor of the game to tell players that they can just quit if they don’t like it. If anything, that is an admission of the issue that’s presented.
6 Likes
I’d venture to say you spout enough of your own.
Random forumer 1: “I think wow should have spaceships and planetary exploration” or “my twinket should drop after 4 runs maximum!!!”
Random forumer 2: “wow isn’t that kind of game, quit if you don’t like it”
Jito: “Hah, thats just an admission of the issue presented”
Don’t get me wrong, there is plenty I think they can improve in the game and wish they would but you get 20 feedback threads that all contradict each other and then you going “they should listen to the feedback!”
20 year old game. Lets reframe here, how many other 20 year old games have that many subs? The world has changed, people want something to give them that instant gratification. It was magical to speak to someone from another country 20 years ago and so on. Show me how many other 20 year old games are doing well?