Protection Paladin 10.0.7 Spec Tree

Yo blizz, why are you making bottom of the tree way the heck worse than it is with pathing? We shouldn’t be forced to take full gift of valkyr to access bulwark nor full faith’s armor(that btw is disgustingly bad talent and should be just removed as it baits way too many people) for bubble taunt? You’re killing Moment of glory being playable by giving us worse pathing than we already had AND making one of the nodes connecting down a 2pointer, we have 8 2 pointers in our tree with 4 of them being mandatory. Please move eye of tyr back to directly under wall and let it connect to bulwark, spellwarding and bubble taunt.
Edit: Gift of the golden val’kyr was taken for wall proc only, the cdr from AS hits is irrelevant for succes of the node so you can scrap that part and make it 1 pointer just for wall procs. Faith’s armor should be removed as i said earlier. Ferren Marcus’ Favor should probably go to 1 pointer. We should be able to grab full left(moment of glory path) and right side(righteous protector path) while picking up Bulwark of Righteous fury. Currently with ptr tree you cannot by 1 point. Also btw Righteous protector should keep it’s 3s per holy power spender to keep the flow of the spec as it is right now, alternatively remove 1s cd on this effect and then you can keep 1.5s per holy power spender.

Thank you for reading my 5am slightly angry rant.

3 Likes

our spec tree is such a disaster now, fixing nothing but nerfing everything. this is unreal, it’s like somebody who doesn’t play the spec ended up revamping all the positioning and just placing random crap wherever they felt like it.

e: we are also now losing half of the value of Righteous Protector’s cooldown reduction, from 3s per HP spender to 1.5s per HP spender? what in the hell is this? surely i can’t be seeing this right, that must be a mistake.

this cant be real… i love this spec even tho im forced to play it not the way i like… i agree that faith’s armor should be removed… its a bad talent that give u nothing…
the right side of the tree need to be moved to a diff order cuase its realy weird the way it placed those talents…
the middle have to be changed as well and i think the best way to make it is
eye of tear- bulwark sellwording final stand - valkir - i will expain
first row eye of tear to make sure u will get it no matter what build u taking like u have now … this will be connect to all 3 of the talents that all are good diff cds that can be changed base on what u doing witch i think will make it more fun and make you (crazy idea) choose then all of them will be connect to the gift talent that will be drop to 1 point that give u the full effect like u have 2 points there… that will make it again more fun and make it the way most ppl use it now but u will enjoy the full effect of the talents
all of this will make the talents more fun and give U THE PLAYER the choice what u want to take… not that u have to take crap talents to get to what u want…

1 Like

this cant be real… i love this spec even tho im forced to play it not the way i like… i agree that faith’s armor should be removed… its a bad talent that give u nothing…
the right side of the tree need to be moved to a diff order cuase its realy weird the way it placed those talents…
the middle have to be changed as well and i think the best way to make it is
1.eye of tear- 2.bulwark sellwording final stand - 3.valkir - i will expain
first row eye of tear to make sure u will get it no matter what build u taking like u have now … this will be connect to all 3 of the talents that all are good diff cds that can be changed base on what u doing witch i think will make it more fun and make you (crazy idea) choose then all of them will be connect to the gift talent that will be drop to 1 point that give u the full effect like u have 2 points there… that will make it again more fun and make it the way most ppl use it now but u will enjoy the full effect of the talents
all of this will make the talents more fun and give U THE PLAYER the choice what u want to take… not that u have to take crap talents to get to what u want…

I really like the current tree, I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. But this new iteration is so regressive. It makes the bottom half too hard to access via a very boring talent. It means from the current set of tools you can’t have what you currently have - a simple nerf. I love final stand, gameplay it is super clutch, but with the changes it would be super hard to get. It is also great class fantasy. Blizzard please listen to the community. Don’t make the spec worse and remove access to fun and lore/flavourful talents!

1 Like

I have to agree they have made both our Class Tree and Spec Tree more limited and constricted and forces us to take talents we previously didnt have to take in order to reach vital points. We’re already on the low side of damage between tanks and these changes is removing even more of our damage.

To make up for these changes they really need to buff other aspects of the damage spectrum because with these trees our damage will go down quite abit. For example to get Divine Toll we kinda need to sacrifice “Seal of Alacrity” 4% Haste without getting anything in return or “Zealot’s Paragon” and something else. Will probably be the latter but still you need to sacrifice something you previously didnt.

Atm in the Prot Tree I’m running all three end nodes and I quite enjoy it and with a simple move I can either cut a point to get a point in “Gift of the Golden Val’kyr” or potentially “Final Stand” if I’m doing content where I think I need more survival or a bubble taunt. Those options are kinda stripped now, especielly “Final Stand” that is locked behind two points that increase SoTR armor. And like said earlier in the thread to get to “Bulwark of Righteous Fury” and “Eye or Tyr” we need to spend an additional point in the “Gift of the Golden Val’kyr” talent which by itself removes a point of damage even two if you played a build that didnt have it to maximize damage. Because generally I only take it when I feel the upside of it will be worth it for example Jade Temple on Fortified, I really want some extra survival for the packs before 3rd boss also the final trash pack. And I generally take “Final Stand” on Tyranical in same dungeon just to have for final trash pack and the 3rd boss during the healing absorb phase just to ease it up for the healer.

Now in order to gain survival we need to sacrifice even more damage and quite frankly Prot Paladins damage when taking more survival than damage is already really low especielly single target.

And they still havent fixed “Fist of Justice” the only two point non throughput talent in the entire game that is the only path to vital talents for the spec.

If they want to remove some throughput from the talent trees and instead put it stright into the abilities. I’m fine with that because less throughput makes us have more options for other things however they arent doing that they are just forcing us to take things even harder and is really making our choices close to nothing.

They also still have three talents linked with Divine Steed and Paladins still have weaker movement than most classes even those that just need to spend one point for their movement.

I’ve taken a look at the (completely unneccesary) changes in the prot tree and honestly the things that were issues remain unadressed and things that were not issues are now issues.
How the hell

2 Likes

The class tree is actually quite a bit better since we can have all 3 capstones without sacrificing divine purpose anymore, the 4% haste passive being left is fine for geared palas, I currently have nearly 6k haste (39% with 4% node) so leaving it behind won’t have that high impact. Spec tree is what i’m concerned with how bottom middle segment looks like.

Sums up what i think of those changes. Really they can’t leave alone something that is fine.

this is a phenomenon that seems to happen often within games like league of legends, where aspects or character strengths that are fine end up getting buffed unnecessarily in order to “mix things up” regularly since this is what has come to be expected from a live-service style game. this can lead to an eternal struggle for balance as the entire intention is to both retain player interest with keeping things “fresh” and shuffle the competitive metagame for viewers and competitors.

in wow’s sense, more often what i see is buffs targeted towards specs that are in my eyes, very much fine and not overwhelming yet still capable. players’ perspectives tend to view the top performers as “what they should also be capable of.” hey, that guy is hitting 150K crits! why can’t i do that? wtf my class sucks! this is especially apparent in a pvp environment where ego, expectations, and performance are of high value to the vast majority. in a pve environment, these desires for high performance tend to be less stressed, with most players aside from mythic WFs and parsechasers tending to be very happy simply interacting with the pve game world through a lens they identify with or mesh with.

cases like prot paladin’s current 10.0.7 spec tree revamp are an example of developers being very out of touch with what prot pala players currently have come to enjoy about their spec’s capabilities and the flexibility offered within the current trees in this xpac. if the dev responsible for prot paladin’s tree and paladin’s class tree is stubborn enough to keep everything the way it is, then several simple things ought to be done:

a) base and spec trees points are further constricted by this update, lending to the idea that some talents should be condensed and reduced in cost -

– Righteous Protector –
is now a capstone in current PTR and as it is a 1 pt talent, should be buffed to 3s CDR per HP ability to reflect the previous strength of the talent. this talent is extremely helpful and quite fun, encouraging creeping power gain through usage of holy power, while providing feedback and reward to the player through both defensive and offensive cooldown reduction, ensuring their cooldowns when used intelligently will be up when they most need them.

– Gift of the Golden Val’kyr –
GotGV’s strength is underratedly high in all forms of content. this talent was one of those talents that you could easily take 1 point of and still feel effective enough. i don’t believe making it into a 1/1 talent is the answer, but it should not be in the position to make it 2/2 mandatory to get Bulwark of Righteous Fury.

– Ferren Marcus’s Fervor & Strength of Conviction –
these 2 talents could be made 1 pointers to free up some space as both are somewhat uninteresting despite the potential power they can bring, with Ferren feeling weaker than SoC.

Base Tree:
many various issues involved with the base class tree for protadin, but i will mention we are more constrained here since not picking DT in a multi-target or pvp environment is essentially trolling. the lack of the old cooldown reduction option for Divine Toll’s capstone is bad, taking away the option of having more frequent DTs used for no good reason. at this point, you could just remove or bake in Divine Resonance and the cooldown reduc into the talent itself, make it a capstone in place of Divine Resonance, and make Seals of Alacrity & Might 1 pointers with both leading into DT. this might not be that balanced but it sure would be fun.

sidenotes: i actually enjoyed the idea of Dusk and Dawn in SL, and i am happy to see more complexity being added to prot paladin’s potential playstyle. personally i can’t encourage things in a spec to be dumbed down too much, lest we have ourselves another legion-esque class gameplay. it’s a great feeling to time the 0-5 game, especially with Sanctified Wrath.

Had some chance to properly play around.
The class tree is either a minor improvement or no real big change but I would like to see quickened invocations added back as a choice slot between that and divine resonance, mostly because having it on a 45s cooldown to me makes it align much better not just with my own spells but usually lines up well with add phases in boss fights, the bluepost doesn’t mention it at all so I worry it might’ve been overlooked.

I’m not a mad paragon player so I have enough points left to get back what I had there but the glaring issues of the class tree that were widely adressed in beta are still present which is a shame, not gonna list those here because lets be real that horse has been beaten to death already.

In the protection tree my build just straight up breaks from the removal of the center line that skips a row and goes straight to the central capstone

Even if you’d restore that line however I would still have to invest way too many points into sidelining into moment of glory, I don’t mind losing eye of tyr cause I gain back ardent defender for it (my build is unconventional) but I am straight up 3 talent points short to just get the build back I was already running and very much enjoying

The end result is that in the protection tree where I had all 3 capstones which had absolutely amazing synergy which made the spec fun and exciting to play, I now have only 1 and in order to keep most of my build in tact am giving up either ferren marcus’s fervor and moment of glory which just pairs so nicely with AW and DT that it really feels like a big loss OR gift of the golden valkyr and bulwark of righteous fury which means that either way I am taking a harsh hit on dps. I could give up righteous protector (lol strength of conviction) for it but who in their right minds would do that?

Edit: I also just noticed that righteous protector which is now a 1 point talent investment and a capstone now only reduces 1.5 rather then the 3 it does now on live.

Its just hit after hit man wth

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.