It’s been gutted. All the other tanks classes feel fun to play and have no real resource constraints. It’s just a slog playing a prot paladin now, not fun at all. Sure you can get the job done but why bother when everything else can do it easier and have more fun at the same time.
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As a healer I can confirm. Paladin feels now like Prot War felt in Season 3; they could die any second. DH is probably the easiest one to heal atm.
you talking about pre patch live servers where max lvl is still 60 or beta df with lvl 70 and all skill points?
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I think prot palas feel great now, perhaps a little squishy on pull but not when they get rolling.
They are far more squishy than other tanks. And sitting there hoping for enough holy power is a terrible mechanic. There was no reason to do this as well, its not like paladins were op.
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Think its fair to say I disagree with pretty much everything you’re saying.
Do you play prot pally? At what level? I don’t think they are squishy at all, they are timing up to 32’s and its only that “low” because warrior became fotm and they are all playing beta.
I’ve timed decent keys for an average player and its never been my pallys “squishyness” that has been the defining factor in timing a key or otherwise.
Got anything to add to this other than “trust me mate, its the internet and I know what I’m talking about”?
I do think prot paladin feels bad to play at the moment and depending on talent choices it feel really bad to just ok (to be fair i have only really played on live not much at all on the beta)
The damage intake for the same key level is way higher in the prepatch compared to before the prepatch by quite a lot.
Also a little hint the highest prot paladin key is 31 with the new talent system.
The 32 keys are with the old talent system.
And even that is only 2 people in the world.
Oh wait there i am wrong there is 1 key done a gambit so a total of 1 prot paladin has done 1 key at 32 total a key done with growl junkrat azuna and twicks just some of the guys who are known to push the highest keys in the world and yet only 1 key at 32.
Oh and by the way that same paladin player also playes DK and does 33 and 32s on that.
I mean sure, but if you do a key at that level you can hardly put the tank into “squishy” territory. It’s clearly more than fit for purpose. Saying its “squishy” is just lazy and disingenuous.
It is squishy compared to how it was before the talent change and even looking at how it is compared to other tanks.
Squishy means you take more incoming damage which means you have a higher chance of being dead without perfect play.
All tanks could in theory do the highest key in the world you just wont see it because it requires more and more from each place down on the squishyness scale.
Saying it is not squishy is disingenuous because it does not factor in what actually is happening to the spec.
To give you an idea in a 15 before the patch i took approx 3.5k and after i take 5.5k damage taken per second.
Now this might be the changes making me play worse but that is a massive change in how much damage you take.
What an absolutely awful comparison.
Your talents might not be the same. You may have had groups interupting single target nukes on you where they aren’t now and so on.
People seem to have their feelings and then they work back from there to make up statistics to prove it. What a pointless way to work.
And your comparison is using that 1 person is able to do a 32 with some of the best players in the world in their group.
And saying because he is able to do a key that means the spec can not possibly be squishy.
Your comparison is seriously just straight-up bad.
I was giving an example it was not using feelings it at all it is my own experience of how much of an increase in damage taken from before to now.
Compared to that person no they are not in fact they are 100% the same as that person.
For my comparison that is the POINT the difference is talents and class changes from Shadowlands to Dragonflight.
That is how much of a change there has been in the class on the survivability scale from before the pre patch to now after the pre patch.
You have shown yourself in the past to be smarter then this come on man don’t fall down now.
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I mean, right back at you.
I’ve done plenty of 20’s in the post season and I’m not seeing being more squishy at all. There is vast discrepancy between how much damage you take on a run by run basis. Thats why some 15’s feel harder than 20’s. Nobody interrupts important nukes, people won’t ever mass stun, they may bolster the crap out of dangerous adds or enrage everything at once. Sure the change in toolkits is a factor but theres 100 other factors in the pot that contribute to damage intake. You’re ignoring all of these and drawing the conclusion that “its the class” while ignoring the other factors.
Also, for clarity, the last 2 dungeons I did in my details were a 15 and 16 iron docks. I took less damage per second in the 16. More than 10% less.
5.1k in the 15 and 4.7k in the 16. Thats not the class.
The thing is i am not, i am taking an average over many dungeons but the number is seriously NOT IMPORTANT at all.
I knew it was a mistake putting it in there and you proved it.
The number itself was a reference point of what i am seeing.
The class feels and are more squishy than before the patch hit.
That is my experience of the game now you can say your experience are different that does not change mine.
You then argue that because a 32 has been done it means the spec is not squishy at all you are ignoring all the factors that exist.
But hey based on your argument there are ZERO tanks in the game that are squishy.
All tanks are the same no difference at all.
Don’t put words into my mouth. With your logic DK’s must be squishy as hell since they take the most damage kappa.
Thanks for your anecdotal feelycraft that I’ve pretty much been told to disregard now that its had holes poked in it. It was very enlightening.
Yes, pesky facts. Always proving and disproving things. It sure is inconvenient when they disprove your “feelings”.
No, thats what I said you’re doing. And I gave examples of such factors.
I mean, thats probably true. Could you define “squishy”? If all tanks can do 30’s then its fair to say they have the toolkits to survive. That would make them… not squishy? Or is logic and reasoning again standing in the way of your feelings on the matter?
Nope, only tank so far I’ve seen that has been criticized is brewmaster for DFlight cause it lost the massive hp + self healing from tier set bonus. There are people doing 20+ keys as prot paladin on DF beta lol. Who cares about Shadowlands m+ anyway, it’s almost done. Only tank in Dragonflight that looks quite op is prot warrior currently.
Tbh that feels more to be a player problem than paladin problem, Paladins aint the best tank thats for sure but the extra power they recieved by being able to combine talents that you previously had to choose between has really made them more robust.
With a good chunk of mastery you will easily hit 50%+ block rate during season 1 at all times add things like Eye of Tyr, bigger consecration higher dr in consecration. All in all Paladins has gotten things to smooth out damage intake.
If a Paladin is constantly struggling every pull his doing something wrong, problem is alot of lesser skilled tanks play with the mindset that they should keep their cooldowns for a rainy day rather than activly use them to assist the healer.
Not to uncommon when I heal +15’s on my Priest that tanks doesnt even use their big DR for the entire runs. And in that area Prot Paladin is the most squishy tank since the other five tanks gets a bigger part of their avoidence/mitigation passivly from their normal rotation while Paladins is more actively needs to handle them.
Not gonna lie though Paladins has some issues but it doesnt really have with survival or damage or anything like that to do its more clunkyness than anything else.
and
Does not work together.
Either you think it is feelcraft or it is facts but it can not be both.
If you think it can be both that is feelcraft.
You can not disprove how something feels to play for a individual level this is just stupid talk from you.
And you know better.
No you did not give examples of factors at all.
I have given examples your example is that someone is able to do a high key that one time with some of the worlds best players the whole topic that you are talking on is about how the spec Feels to play not how numerically good or bad it is, your attachment point your whole argument here focuses on this one thing yet ignores this part:
Right after the numbers you cherish like your little baby.
You completely ignored that and went full focus on the numbers said instead of actually reading what was being said.
This this right here, tells me you do not understand basic concepts about tanking.
Squishy is the feeling of being dead or close to it easily, however it is not the same as losing a lot of hp. it is a very large topic to talk about and if you do not know the subject at all then this would require talking about tanking from a complete noob level.
The lowest level of understanding about this topic is active mitigation if you have it up you feel more sturdy you are more sturdy when you lose active mitigation you feel squishy because you are used to having that uptime of active mitigation a lot.
For paladin as a specific case standing or not standing in consecration is an example of how the same person can be very squishy or not at all.
This is on the basic basic level and it has a lot more to it then this i am not the person to go to, to learn about this though.
So my question to you is why are YOU talking about this if you do not understand basic tank concepts?
Or is logic and reasoning too hard for you to understand and that is why you never learned about this and just feelcraft your tanking?
Again with dem feelings.
Useful example. “Tank feels squishy when doing it wrong” More news as it breaks folks. Whats next? Class feels squishy when sitting and facing the other way?
Doctorate in selective reading? Or are all the things mentioned not significant factors in the damage taken in a run? 
Odd, I’m tanking higher keys than you on a prot paladin. I’d be a God if I could master some basic concepts.
I actually like prot.
My only gripe is limited mobility.
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With lvl 70 they feel great!
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