Unfortunatly for you, it’s cemented in the Lore.
Thrall is not like Doomhammer or Blackhand, he did not ally with the Amani or the Ogres(Rexxar did win over the Stonemaul, they’re allies to the Horde)
They no longer consort with demons, they are culturally very different, their allies are all different peoples…so no, I guess they Are the “New Horde” for obvious reasons.
Horde emblem below Varian’s grave. It’s not accessible without removing the 3d models.
This was way before my time but it just shows a bit of what the Horde represents from the pov of the developers. Samwise/voice actor of Samuro is known to be a Horde-fan. Apparently it was so bad after that BlizzCon that Metzen came back next time with an Alliance-shirt during the presentation, likely 2011 then. Haven’t seen any clips yet.
Yes - however: The Diaper Gnomes and Vulpera have been datamined like this a year before their official release as well. I really, really hope that they won’t add another human flavor to the blue team.
Dunno, do you feel offended by this? You may not see yourself as this “team red” but these people exist and enjoy bashing the Alliance at any given moment, even when they are already on the ground. Going back to the actual discussion, and to link it with my concerns, the Alliance needs the copy-elves to get some popularity back. While I do enjoy playing every race, most of the majority despise all of them and want just beautiful races. The helves fulfill this request but they are again denied and only available by a compromise where people are fighting for better customizations. It’s sad but it can’t be helped.
But you have to ability to post there, feel free to share some love from me there. Especially for the one female Forsaken priestess who clearly enjoys reveling in the misery of others. That’s not okay.
I agree - but we had similar discussions about the Vulpera as well and here we are. I really, really hope that team blue don’t get human #4 in blue.
And Adiun/Varian Wyrnn is not like Garithos. So, please, tell me the logic here?
Varian even tried to convince in for the Blood Elves to join the Alliance in MoP before Jaina went into her Dreadlord Moment.
I’ll share it in one of the High Elf threads over there. In the end, we still need our High Elves for the Alliance. Not compromises.
EDIT: Oh wait, gotta find a thread.
EDIT 2: Here you go.
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Squints
I suppose it’s vaguely similar. A bit too round perhaps.
Before I forget: The original source:
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/4l9s6w/the_horde_have_defaced_the_new_stormwind_park/
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Varian isn’t Garithos, but whomever was overseeing alliance operations at the time clearly didn’t think that telling nelf not to send spies into quel thalas to sabotage belf structures was worth doing. It might be hamfisted but it is what happened.
It needs stating that when Anastarian withdrew from the alliance the vast majority of Helf supported him. Most helf were largely indifferent to the alliance, excepting those who remained in places like Dalaran or on active service with the alliance in the past. The vast majority of helf remained in Quel thalas and weren’t concerned with matters beyond their own borders, namely trolls.
So when their kingdom is in trouble and a certain grand marshal starts persecuting remaining helf (now belf) it is not surprise that pride would stop the elves going back to the alliance. A political union they chose to dissolve. This is probably why the alliance didn’t send support to quel thalas, because they left the alliance.
I think people forget the union between helves and alliance was initially very contractual and not based upon any kind of affection or kinship. They ended up leaving the alliance, so the alliance saw no reason to send precious troops to them despite the past, they made their bed, they’d lie in it, they still had the remaining loyal high elves anyway, why bother with the rest whom stuck two fingers up at the alliance?
And in turn, the belf, due to pride, wouldn’t likely go to them, begging for help and conceding they made a mistake. Instead they’d take the offer of help from the horde. In a way this allows them to survive without crawling back to the alliance, cementing the idea they made the right call in leaving in the first place.
Both nations (alliance and thalassian) are to blame for the belf joining the horde. But people would do well to remember thalassians by and large have been presented as quite self interested and prideful, so even if they did make a mistake in leaving the alliance, they would be unlikely to admit that and come to the alliance with a begging bowl. That is not how they work or have ever worked. It’s different when the Forsaken arrive, as they have the connection to Sylvanas. Without that connection, the belf probably wouldn’t have accepted their aid either.
The attitude of “high elves” feeling kinship with humans and being more down to earth has always been the minority demeanour of thalassians and people would do well to remember that. The vast majority of them were arrogant and aloof and thought they were better than the other races.
Quite simply…neither them were there, Varian only came back before WoTLK, at that point the Blood Elves had already joined the Horde and had animosity with the Alliance…and Anduin was still a boy under the tutilage of Stormwind’s steward Bolvar Fordragon.
When Varian took control of the Alliance and took part in the raid of the Undercity, after the events of the Wrathgate, he made it abundantly clear how he thought of the Horde and basicly made a declaration of war on the spot.
In Mists of Pandaria, it was actually Lor’themar Theron who contacted the Alliance for negotiations in stepping ‘back’ into the Alliance, it was not Varian who initiated these talks;
Lor’themar reiterates his past as a [ranger], and why the sin’dorei are part of the modern Horde. However, coming under the same disregard and scrutiny on behalf of Garrosh as the blood elves had suffered under [Garithos] years before, Lor’themar considers looking into “[Old Alliances].” Rumors of Lor’themar’s dissatisfaction with Garrosh’s leadership begin to spread within the Horde’s ranks, and Theron himself enters into talks with [King Varian Wrynn] to negotiate [Quel’Thalas] back into the Alliance.
Also note, how the words ‘old allegiances’ and ‘back into’ are used, this may just be nothing, but it lends credence as to why I don’t consider the Alliance- The New Alliance.
I guess we’re going to forget the Dwarven spy and the Night Elf saboteurs/spies as well, then.
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Here is the thing. What actual story do they have in Quel’thalas when we see them? They were just thrown in there to make anything up in TBC to Blood Elves joining the Horde. So what actual story is it to see them in there?
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a carbon copy dipped in elek poodle.
the carbon copy is blood elves.
original is high elves- allied with the humans and dwarves
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Never claimed it was mate. I didn’t attack anyone’s opinions on HE’s.
“Well, the story is so bad and not as fleshed out as it could have been so therefore it doesn’t count!”
Is that what you’re saying? Because we may as well discount most of the stories in this game if that’s indeed what you’re saying.
Fact: The Alliance sent military to occupy land that was not theirs. That alone is enough for the Blood Elves to cut all ties and declare war.
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Ok, good, whatever.
This is a nonsensical argument, you could apply that to litterally Everything in game, and not just this one…
People have already pointed out what their purpose was, and yes, the whole story line focused on why the Blood Elves joined the Horde, That was the entire point.
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As someone who followed the Vulpera discussion, there was a tremendous amout of information that all but screamed they were being added as an allied race. This does not exist for the Shadowlands races. Until proven otherwise, the presumption must be they aren’t to be added.
Frankly I don’t want them to be added. I think adding them would colour the experience of anyone who plays through Shadowlands after it’s conclusion if you know two of the Covenants go Horde and two go Alliance.
That and the lore strongly suggests they are creatures of the Shadowlands who just cannot leave. Nor should they be expected to. I mean, they are the souls of the dead.
Right, and Quel’thalas sent the Sin’dorei to fight against the Draenei in Azuremyst Isles. Yeah, we all can make anything up as well.
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Right indeed. You don’t get to ignore parts of the story you don’t like you know. It is indisputable that the Alliance invaded Blood Elven lands and forced the elves to dedicate enough resources and manpower to deal with that threat in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. They were enemies from the moment they made landfall and gave the Blood Elves no reason to think otherwise.
I am not too familiar with the Draenei experience but I was under the assumption that they were sent there under the orders of Kael’thas rather than Silvermoon or the Horde. It’s also worth mentioning that the Blood Elves stationed there are hostile to both factions unlike the Alliance forces in Eversong and the Ghostlands.
That’s pretty telling don’t ya think? 
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So, where is the official lore source that the Alliance invaded Quel’thalas?
In the game? Or are you going to argue that those Night Elves and that Dwarf were rogue agents? Present proof if that is the case.
Sounds pretty strange to me though when Alliance players can walk up to em and have a chat. I don’t get the same treatment as a member of the Horde when I’m around the Blood Elves in Bloodmyst/Azuremyst I’ll tell ya that much.
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