I disagree. High Elves for the Alliance.
Kthnxbai.
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Void Elves?
Void Elves are just put in as compromises. But people have never been asking for compromises. People have been asking for the High Elves that we already had within the Alliance since the beginning of World of Warcraft.
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Yes, that’s why compromises exist. They exist to make up for what isn’t possible.
Yes, and you can now look like one with the new customisation stuff. I don’t know why you guys are so hellbent on a name. Even if it was made an Allied Race, it would still share the same racials as Blood Elves because they’re the bloody same.
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And how exactly is it impossible to make something playable that we already had within our faction?
And yet, in game, they are represented differently. And even the racials could be made different. Remember, High Elves chose to not symphon arcane from creatures to help with there addictions, they virtually just quit.
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Because they’re on the verge of extinction.
Okay? I don’t know how this would make any difference in-game.
Exactly this!
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Okay, Source?
Yes, kael’thas and Tyrande met - once- before she got herself killed.
Yet she and Shandris are the leaders of the Sentinels, not Fandral Staghelm, that’s what we know.
Woops; By ‘Killed’ I ment flushed down the river
Actually, you are incorrect, that is a conceit started by Tolkien in the last century, and is -not- how Elves have been depicted in legend and myth. They are not shining goodly folk linked to humans and dwarves, in fact they typically disdain Dwarves, and are usually malevolent to Humans, having the very views that Blood Elves have. “We do what we must, because we can, and to heck with anyone else”. I mean the traditional idea of a Fae Warhost involved Elves, Orcs, Goblins, Pixies, Trolls, Ogres, all kinds of things. Never involved Humans.
Do not make the mistake of thinking that Tolkien, Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer invented Elves. They really did not. Elves were -never- usually benevolent things that loved humans, they were the opposite. Humans were ‘things’ like cattle, that they neither cared about, or valued the opinions of, things that were lesser and not to be regarded as even real ‘people’, Elves would happily use them and cast them aside, sometimes not even because they needed them for a short period of time, but sometimes just because they found it ‘funny’.
Warcraft Elves also are not the super chums of Humans, They’re in it for themselves. If these uppity dull cattle have the temerity to raise their swords in anger against the Elves, then they deserve a slap.
Elves are not nice people…Even High Elves. “We’ve got this prisoner captured, what shall we do?” “Ehh, lets blind it in one eye and cut off its arm, it doesn’t benefit anyone, but hey, who cares, its a -thing- not a person”
-One- Reason.
Give us the rest.
I mean essentially you are saying “Company does market research, finds something is popular, decides to follow the market research through by implementing the thing”
Also Aibury, yeah, Golfclub to the face? Youch, that’s crossing a line, that is an actual threat, no matter how improbable it is that you could implement it.
You might want to play TBC, where you see the compounded reason why the modern day Alliance is also guilty of acts against the neutral nation of Quel’thalas.
I mean if we -do- go with that logic, Number of Horde playable races that had annoyed the Blood Elves at that time =1, Number of Alliance playable races that had annoyed the Blood Elves at that time=3 Including one carrying out hostile actions on Thalassian soil -at the time- as opposed to 20 or more years ago…
True, sentencing civilians, soldiers and children to a slow death by mana starvation is clearly much more benevolent.
I mean…What?
Yep, and the Orcs dropped the Amani like a tonne of hot bricks. Humans get a free pass because…ummm…. Sorry, why are the Blood Elves supposed to be annoyed with one faction that is different from the one it was at the time, yet supposed to be utterly chill with the other faction that is supposedly different from the one it was at the time, especially when said -new- version of the same faction then attacks them?
Actually, whilst it was different to what the Alliance later -did- attempt during TBC, by the definition of the word in the dictionary, what Garithos attempted to make happen was in fact ‘Genocide’ Which is, “the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group:” Ergo the Purge was an act of Genocide, the Night Elven attempts on the Sin’dorei was an act of Genocide, and Garithos’ intentions, were indeed, Genocidal. That’s, just, like, Y’know, what the word actually means, So yeah. That’s three strikes against the Alliance, or rather, one more recent one, one whilst they were a neutral nation, and one whilst the same people but not the same because that only counts when it is Orcs did it.
Can I just remind you that the term was “They were to be -Ceremonially- Executed”
This was all about making a point and crushing a people. Which, Y’know, tends to rile people.
No we don’t.
Source please.
Oh, That thread, so a person’s opinion then?
Yeah, Source Please.
Oh right, so hang on, let me get this right. When the Alliance does a bad thing to give a neutral nation to have a reason to go Horde, it clearly is not the -Alliance- doing it, What was that then?
Can you explain to me why you would sent a person to spy on a foreign nation (Actually, that bit is easy, even allied nations spy on each other in our real world, everyone does it), but then how that person is in coalition and passing information to a heavily armed military force, that is not only backed up in a maritime sense, but actually capable of seizing land and holding it? Who are as it later transpires attempting to kill your populace in its entirety by cutting off something that they -know- you need?
How is that OK? I mean lets go with the basics. You send a hostile military force that will attack, unprovokedly, members of a neutral state going about their business. Whats that? Is that not an act of aggression? I mean that does sound aggressive to me. (That does happen by the way, the Night Elves fire first) You then start to occupy parts of their lands and attack them. This is all sounding rather aggressive so far?
Incorrect, as with most things you post. You are more than welcome to the original High Elf Model that Alliance had for NPC’s. It does not look like the model that Blizzard brought in for the playable model of the Blood Elf Race, now copied to Alliance for Void Elves.
Facts old boy, Facts.
Except that was Kael’thas. That’s the point. It was a tragic misunderstanding on both sides, still doesn’t excuse the Alliance.
That is indeed correct, the branch of the Sunfury sent there, are hostile even to other Blood Elves.
It is called The Burning Crusade Expansion, you can see it all there.
That is how it works, yes. If something happens, it happens. I mean you might as well say the Horde did not burn Teldrassil down because you can see a version where they had not.
“Speculation” "the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence: "
Yep, its speculation. No evidence. We -do- have the evidence of what occurred, but we don’t have evidence as to why. It could have been Fandral, but it could have been Tyrande, lets face it, she is not the most rational woman alive, and has never been depicted so. Fact does remain, the Alliance did it.
Err, No, That is not a fact either. We don’t -know- who sent the Night Elf aggressors to Quel’thalas. They may (and indeed did, as we see) aid each other in the Third War, but that doesn’t give us any insight into the political choices between those times.
If the Night Elves had a more emotionally stable leader who doesn’t also murder her own police for doing their job, then maybe that might have been a possibility. Sadly they Tyrande, who is quite possibly the least emotionally stable racial leader apart from Sylvanas, so, nope, that ship sailed. The Kaldorei have a 100% track record for driving other Elves into the Horde.
Incorrect. They were a Neutral Race.
Sure, why not, would be a really neat twist on RP realms, there is already a Guild planning on making Void Elves as High Elves, and I think that would add something really fun to the experience between the two Factions at Cold War. I think it would be awesome, especially as they now -are- on separate actions and -can- still talk to each other. We can get some real tense Cold War Shenanigans on, and I for one think that is awesome.
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Look it up if you don’t believe me. It is explained that they couldn’t bring themselves to execute so many of their own people.
Execution = guaranteed death.
Exile = possible death.
It seems more like they didn’t want them dead after all but instead hoped they would make a life for themselves elsewhere.
The druids could not bring themselves to put so many of their kin to death, so they decided to exile the reckless Highborne from their lands. Sunstrider and his followers boarded a number of specially crafted ships and set sail upon the seas. By now the Highborne were glad to be rid of their conservative cousins and free to practice the arcane with impunity.
That’s from the 'pedia. Couldn’t be bothered to get Chronicles from the bookshelf.
Well, no… You’re stretching the word a lot here.
Executing a military force isn’t genocidal, no matter how large it is. Unless that military force is all that remains of the race/ethnic group in question.
The dictionary might word it as “the deliberate killing of a large group of people” but that’s never how it’s used in ordinary conversation. It would only cause confusion.
Because with that definition some could argue that 9/11 was a genocide. Because what is a “large number of people” really?
And with that loose a definition then every single battle between the Horde and Alliance can be called a genocide, because they are intentionally killing people in large numbers and usually only certain races deemed “hostile”.
The war between the Alliance and Horde is better described as a “Race War” than a “War of Genocide”.
This is how the UN describes it:
The United Nations, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such” including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to “bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”, preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.
It’s usually only used about actions where the end goal is the extermination of a racial group or ethnicity.
Such as the holocaust, the war in Yugoslavia and the war in Rwanda.
If it’s used in “lesser” situations it’s just watering down the meaning of the word.
A genocide is just about the worst act imaginable, and should have its own word that isn’t applied on “lesser” horrible acts in my opinion.
In my language the word genocide is “folkemord”. Which describes it rather accurately, as it basically means “to murder a people”.
And Garithos intended to execute every elf under his command. We never see him send death squads into Eversong with the mission to gather the heads of elven children.
At “best” what Garithos planned could be called a massacre.
But as I said, the execution of Kael’thas and all his soldiers could potentionally result in the extinction of the Blood Elves. As no one would have been able to return to Quel’Thalas and teach them how to sate their magical addiction in other ways.
And while I do not doubt that Garithos would have rejoiced at the news I doubt this information was available to him.
To think he could hatch such a scheme is giving the man too much credit I’d say.
The Purge can be called genocidal in theory, as it only targeted Blood Elves.
But the end goal wasn’t the extinction of Blood Elves.
Only to make sure none were left in Dalaran. Terrible enough to be sure, but not a true genocide in my opinion.
But the writers seem to have largely forgotten this massacre. Surprised me when the elf Hathorel showed up as we rescued Baine during the war campaign, screaming about how he wanted revenge for the Purge.
But how in the hell did you come to the conclusion that the Night Elven mission in in Quel’Thalas was one of genocide?
I must have missed the part where Night Elven death squads rounded up civilians for summary execution.
The Old Horde got 2 points for a genocidal attempt, while the Alliance of Lordaeron and the Alliance of Stormwind got 0 points. And not because they are Orcs, that’s a bit disingenuous to suggest, but because the goal of the Amani whom the Orcs allied with, was the total extermination of the High Elves.
And one point earlier because of the almost successful genocide against the Draenei.
The difference being the races of Legion (before Argus) were being prepped to join the Horde. The intent was there. The intent is clearly not there with the Shadowlands races. The Shadowlands races exist to support the Covenant system, not to be allied races. I would be very surprised if allied races are made out of groups consisting of the reformed souls of dead mortals. I think it’s a dead end debate that isn’t going to go anywhere frankly, which is had because the Shadowlands races have two legs and a pulse. When 10.0 comes around, whatever new races we meet in that content will also become Allied race candidates merely by existing, regardless of whether they are actually fit to become playable or not.
I don’t particularly care about the sense of victimhood among some Alliance players regarding Nightborne. The Horde got Nightborne so you could get Void Elves, because if the Alliance got the model of a Horde race, the Horde was going to get something equivalent in exchange. And the Alliance got Void Elves because of the neverending demand of some Alliance players for high elves, so to complain about Nightborne is akin to demanding something, incessantly, for years and when you finally get it, complain that the other person got something different yet equivalent. This is the kind of behaviour that feeds the stereotype of the pro high elfers as never happy and always looking for more.
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- nobody asked void elves
- night elf druids helped cure nightborne addiction/disease, in return they killed half their kin across the ocean
- horde does not need equivalents. the game is broken and imbalanced towards the horde for 6+ years now. that was a chance to fix some of the imbalance.
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If you wanted to play a traditional high elf that badly, the horde was and is still waiting for you. Just because the faction divide isn’t important to you personally doesn’t mean it has no importance. You didn’t get high elves because they are the exact same as Blood Elves. You have a void elf variant because that provides a small, tiny amount of difference. And that still wasn’t enough, hence the two year whine since their introduction.
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A single Night Elf helped do that. The rest of the Night Elves and the Night Elf government gave them the cold shoulder, whereas the Blood Elves went out of their way to help. And the lore itself was subordinated to gameplay regardless, the Horde was going to get something for the Alliance getting Void Elves.
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I have even less interest in the commentary regarding apparent Horde bias. This is a social problem, not a game design problem. But the Alliance is not so special that they should be given everything they demand and the Horde ignored or short changed merely because you feel victimised by the current balance. If you think the Horde is such a great faction by comparison, why not join them?
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Sorry, but Blood Elves and High Elves are not traditional elves. Night Elves are.
And yet, the Horde got given Blood Elves despite the fact that they are the same as Alliance High Elves?
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Given that I said ‘traditional high elf’ and not ‘traditional elf’ I fail to see the relevance of your counter-point. Blood Elves are traditional, bog-standard high elves.
And, from a lore based perspective, the Horde got the Blood Elves because they represent the vast majority of the high elf population, including the lawful government of the high elf people, and that government elected to join the horde. The high elves who live in exile are precisely that, exiles.
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I really don’t know why horde still stick to Belf are Helf. They might were highelf but no more even thier children will not be highelf they will be directly Belf.
You even don’t honor your people by saying Belf are High elf.
Then after that, some says we play Belf for the lore after contradicting himself
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First… what?
Second… how are Blood Elves not High Elves?
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Because the change from high elf to blood elf was a name change. Still the same people in every other regard. Some of them even have proper blue eyes again.
The change from blood/high elf to void elf was being zapped by void energies which did provoke some biological change. So while a void elf is most definitely also a high elf, they are high elves in the same way Dark Iron Dwarves are Dwarves.
One is the traditional standard and one is the variant from that standard.
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So fel elf are still high elf but the void elf are different than the rest of high elf.
Applying standards should be fair.
Considring Void elf to High elf as Iron dwarves to dwarves is also unfair. After getting blue eyes and fair skin you are still saying that. Alleria is also a High elf you know not any random but the leader.
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Not the same thing. Blood Elves never consumed fel energy, they consumed arcane from mana wyrms. The high elves in dalaran consumed arcane from magical relics. Both survived by consuming arcane magic. The difference is that some of the sophisticated spellwork in Quel’thalas, the stuff that sustains their buildings, was powered using fel crystals. That’s where their green eyes came from, being around those fel crystals, but fel wasn’t actually ingested. Besides, that was over a decade ago and they’ve been hooked up to a holy/arcane sunwell ever since…as have those high elves in dalaran.
Void Elves on the other hand got blasted with void energies. They grew tentacles. Their eye colours have shifted to, at best, a voidier blue but also now have dark purples. They are definitely transformed. Being a void elf isn’t a lifestyle choice. It’s a shift in biology into being something close, but different.
And Alleria is not a point of comparison. She has an off form and an on form. Other Void Elves, as far as we know, don’t have that. They are always on, even with the fair skin they are going to be VOID elves, not void ELVES.
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