This conclusion was reached using the so-called Harrison-Stetson method; the theory was pulled out of a hat, and Harrison’s name was added to make it sound more credible.
No thanks.
wtf is this? CRINGE
honestly if they ever added high elves itll be midnight. high elves for horde and ethereals for alliance
That’s even weirder than wanting high elves for the alliance
was a typo noticed it then thought it was funnier the other way around. i think high elves will be added for alliance in midnight and feel like ethereals are prob coming after the karesh stuff
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IM not sure if wow have millions and millions of players at all 
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Nope, amani was just one of the tribes elves were at war with. There is 10k+ years of wars of elves with different troll tribes, where elves and trolls basically led survival wars. You cant compare that to Garithos being racist and trying to imprison some elves.
But even IF that was the case, and elves only warred with amani, which is not true, and your logic would be, one tribe of trolls is not like all tribes of trolls, then by extension you should have said one Garithos is not like all humans.
But again, factually wrong, they did not just war with amani, but with different troll tribes.
They also got torched by orcs in war2.
The bloodshed between orcs and elves does not come in comparison to Garithos being rude and trying to kill a couple of elves.
One thing, is if your military commander is a racist idiot, who uses his DE JURE right to execute your leader for treason (and fails)
Another thing is if an enemy army comes in and tries to wipe your whole nation out (and only fails to completely kill off everyone by an inch)
DKs were the old horde’s thing, along with their magic
So Arthas becoming dk AT THAT TIME immediately implies some horde connection (which you know who it was, the connection?)
And personally Arthas killed the alliance king and alliance was effectively fighting him.
So while there are dks in alliance now, at that time, alliance fought against them.
Haha, you remember that thread as well…
Yep, elves have no place in the horde.
Here is the truth.
- Orcs and trolls have attempted genocide against the elves, alliance never did.
- An orc created the old horde, and then ruled the scourge. Both the burning of the silvermoon and the burning of the Quel’Thalas were executed under the leadership of some orc.
- Elves have a long tradition of allying with the humans, and a long tradition of fighting with different troll tribes (not just amani)
- The remnants of the old alliance are survivors of the scourge attack. Elves are survivors of the scourge attack. Forsaken are a rebel fraction of the scourge, some of the forsaken probably took part in burning of the silvermoon.
- The races of the horde are historically genocidal. Orcs tried to genocide humans and elves as the old horde, and dropped a manabomn=nuclear bomb on the humans as the new horde. Forsaken tried to develop a ‘bio-weapon’ to kill all the living and burned the teldrassil with everyone inside. Trolls are historically trying to wipe elves out.
- Elves are aristocracy and mage-based culture, like humans, not shamanistic culture, like orcs/trolls/taurens. How are blood elves supposed to see themselves culturally closer to the undead, or tribal cultures, as opposed to feudal humans?
- Alliance is stronger than the horde, especially in vanilla. Realpolitics dictate aligning with the strong block, especially if you were part of the old alliance
- Thrall is the most anti-fel leader in vanilla. its unclear, why he would be more willing to accept the blood elves, than jaina/magni.
TLDR: Why would elves ally with horde races, who have tried to genocide them, and go kill humans, who have usually been their closest allies and with whom they share identity as genocide survivors? this is DUMB
Conclusion: elves were only added to the horde, because blizzard wants to equalize the factions. however, there is no lore internal logical reason for that, and it breaks suspense of disbelief.
Will this be fixed? - i would not hold out hope for blizz
But yeah from the point of view of the lore, elves have no business being in the horde.
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Alliance was a total mess in Vanilla…even the villainous faction since it housed Onyxia for a long time.
You had Varian who was missing
Tyrande and Fandral were at logger heads
The supposed Princess of Ironforge had joined willingly with the Dark Irons of Blackrock
Only the Gnomes had any sort of union but they were so small.
Any High Elves who were still part of the Alliance and not left with Kael’thas were so few in number and at that time, the Night Elves and High Elves were still very uneasy around each other and in most instances, most High Elves were just Rangers and Priests. Their mastery of Arcane Magic seemed to have fallen by the way-side.
The Horde was actually banded together for survival and doing what they could to survive…especially the Orcs and Forsaken.
In Vanilla, as far as I can recall - it was primarily the Horde that ended a lot of the corruption in the world…such as Dire Maul’s corruption, beating back C’thun
This is something I would probably agree with.
But to concentrate on fel
if I had to compare horde leader thrall against alliance leadership at that time jaina and magni, I would say thrall was more anti-fell
However, alliance is clearly stronger.
Yes, like you mentioned, in early wow, alliance is somewhat paralyzed politically.
But at the same time in late war3-vanilla orcs+tauren+trolls have problems dealing with local centaur tribes, which is a local problem. There are a couple of kul-tiran invasions, the horde can barely deal with. Kul-tiran is just one part of the human nation.
And obv during later expansions horde capitals are repeatedly sacked and wars lost.
I mean, just look at all the dwarven plane bunkers, from laerderon to kalimdor.
So to sum up, I agree with your statement, that alliance is somewhat in political turmoil, but they have always shown to be stronger. Similarly, vanilla horde IS more anti-fell, but that just proves further that blood elves are less culturally aligned with the horde.
But that doesn’t show alliance strength at all.
This shows that the Horde was banded together and united.
The Alliance didn’t have this as they had political and social struggles that caused a lot of damage, internally. You can’t tell me that the Alliance were stronger during these times because their leaderships were all in major problems as I laid out.
Outside of Gnomes and the scattered High Elves - the main races of the Alliance, being Humans, Night Elves and Dwarves all had major leadership problems which caused more damage. The Horde had none of this.
Between Thrall, Cairne and Sylvanas - they all held it together. The biggest thing that was an issue for them was the Burning Blade infiltration, which all 3 were aware of and they dealt with.
The holdings of the Night Elves were far more uncertain in Vanilla than the holdings of the Forsaken in Lordaeron, despite everything the Forsaken and Sylvanas were going through at that time.
Not to me they haven’t.
You can’t show unity if your leaders are fighting (Tyrande and Fandral) or missing (Varian.) Humans and Night Elves were the main races of their respective continents at the time and what was happening doesn’t match the solidarity that the Horde had.
Actually - Fel played no role in the Blood Elves joining.
It was all due to Sylvanas wanting them to join the Horde and why she, as she said, stood at the negotiation table and fought tooth and nail to let the Elves in.
Fel played no role in joining or being excluded from the Horde. It was Sylvanas because she wanted her kindred in.
in vanilla night elves controlled as many locations, as tauren orcs and trolls combined.
Look, I laid out, how horde repeatedly had major military issues from one single off shore fraction of the alliance, which is kul tiras, and arguably survived through jaina support. I underlined dwarven air and technology superiority in classic. I pointed out to the fact horde actually was in wars against the alliance, and lost them.
You said that alliance was weaker, because Jaina and Magni are weak leadership, I guess?
sorry, this does not convince me at all.
What’s Jaina got to do with Stormwind? Jaina isn’t a leader of Stormwind. That was…Bolvar and Onyxia
They controlled the same, if not less areas than Tauren and Orcs.
Irrelevant.
Irrelevant and actually, won them in some areas - see Hillsbrad, Ashenvale in Cata, Ghostlands and Silverpine
What your saying doesn’t convince me in any area.
Weak and none-leaders doesn’t convince me that your stronger. It suggests your a complete mess.
Thrall, Cairne, Sylvanas and Vol’jin were actually stable leaders who dealt with situations. The Alliance leadership was a total mess at the time…in fact, leadership is being too kind. What they had was barely passible “leaders”, whom were better as Commanders.
If I am saying, that one faction repeatedly beat another and has tech superiority and also controls much more territory and more soldiers, but that does not convince you, or you deny the fact, I am ok with leaving you in peace with your opinion, as you certainly have the right to have one, but it contradicts above mentioned evidence, therefore it’s illogical, therefore I cant accept it
You can’t provide evidence of that time’s technology because none of them were in use. That is all irrelevant. Your posts are all irrelevant.
Agree to disagree. I can’t accept your illogical methodology behind poor leaders = stronger.
It’s just a way to be cute. If you two hadn’t pointed it out, I wouldn’t even have known about it because I’ve acquired something of an immunity to emojis.
Look at that grumpy devil in this context, isn’t that just the most adorable thing you ever saw? Right, it is. See how these kind of abominations cannot be stopped, they must fade away on their own.
I want huge elves, or walruses. Actually the walruses, that’s what I want.
The horde should not have had blood elves, they should’ve had dark elves. But that’s too close to night elves, which are actually wood elves.
Sometimes it makes things worse if you try and do your own thing. Blood elves are not nice at all, they commit blood sacrifices and eat flesh, they’re savage and terrible. Not cute. That’s how I envision them anyway, like terribly wicked.
Anyway, it should’ve been dark elves and they should’ve been physical and not another arcaner.
Well, each to their own. But orcs don’t like undead, just saying. No one like undead.
If there were good and evil choice, I would totally go good, but I’d be orc. And they’d hunt me for it, of course; as they should. And humans would still not like me, cause I’m an orc. But that would be nothing compared to how much they’d despise undead.
That’s how I see it. And no, it’s not because… well, whatever.
Here’s another one who doesn’t enjoy the devil.
Of course they’ll add it. They’ve added everything else. 8 kinds of dwarves so why not 12 elves? And a dog or two for good measure.
I actually think the foxes are cool though, I got nothing against those.
true words.
Of course. Horde is all ugly, everyone’s ugly. Everyone hates ugly. It’s kind of cute but ultimately intolerable. That’s the real reason people play alliance. All the kids grew old and they don’t want to play the crooked troll anymore.
Did you watch the movie? Orcs are twice the size of humans. There’s no fighting giants like that, not with swords at least. It’s like going against a bull, that has a two handed axe it is swinging wildly. It’s just impossible.
Besides, they had their warlocks too. Did you play wc1? They were evenly matched until you realised that the demons summoned by the warlocks were a lot better than water elementals. And then there’s Gul’Dan too. Warlock, right? Or something special. Powerful, could drain the life and open portals. Began the invasion, having drained their own world? Idk… I don’t see alliance winning too much if it wasn’t for that alliance was always so darn beautiful and fair that they just had to win.
I was always of a darker mind.
And no, I do not challenge you to a lore-off. I know little about the lore. I just know what I think.
Make High Elves great again! 
#quel’dorei2025 
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The old horde was very powerful, I am not going to argue with you here.
Like if you are saying, that the old horde was more powerful than the old alliance, I am not necessarily going to argue that.
I am only speaking about Thrall’s horde.
Thrall and his 3 ships, along with a small troll tribe and the tauren, were struggling to deal with the kul tiras and the kalkar. Yet, the other person claim they compare in strength to the whole of the new alliance.
So yes, maybe old horde > old alliance
But definitely
new horde < new alliance