Questions regarding class design

[Jinsk-kazzak (Jinsk)]

Disclaimer:
When i mean Warlocks i mean all 3 specs, we got to start looking at the class as a whole and not aff/destru/demo as seperate classes.

hello fellow warlocks,

I got a few questions for you guys and would love to know your anwsers, regarding class design.

There is no “right” or “wrong”, just fun.

So taking fun in consideration…

wich expansion did you start and wich is your favourite regarding warlock class design?

Do you like BFA Warlock class design?

What would you change? (small anwser)

Wich tools, if any, would you bring back?

thanks

[Blacklock-argent-dawn (Blacklock)]

I started playing at around mid cata
I honestly prefer WoD demo, but there are definitely alot of spells i want back from MoP/Legion.
I would like back
Curse of the Elements
Twilight Ward
Demonic Rebirth
Dark intent
Metamorphosis
Demonic leap
Chaos wave
Touch of chaos
Hellfire
Dark soul: knowledge
Demonic fury as a demonology resource back
Felflame
Dark Regeneration
Dark Bargain
Carrion swarm
Archimonde’s Darkness
Mannoroth’s Fury
Glyph of Darksoul
Harvest life
Unboundwill
Blood Horror
Hand of Doom
Impending Doom
Demonwrath
Thal’kiels consumption

That’s pretty much it for me I think
I honestly just cant be bothered going into depth as to why I dislke current Bfa demo design. I’ve explained it over and over again. Everything just feels so boring compared to WoD and MoP we’re not summoning anything impressive and our rotation is literally shadow bolt and hand of Gul’dan. I’ll never understsnd why anyone would enjoy this borefest.

[Mêphâlâ-argent-dawn (Mêphâlâ)]

I would bring back MoP version of demonology. Why? Because it worked back in the days, it was not cumsy as current “demo” (current demo named demo not as shortening from Demonology, but as demo like demonstration version)
MoP version of demonology worked for tons of diffirent reasons.

1. It was techicaly (spell programing/coding) not complicated as current demo.
2. It is not relied on pet AI as much as current one, at least not for such ammount of pets.

• We not suffered as much as now from bad demons AI.
• We not rellied as much on good navmesh part of the game for our demons as now.
• We did not suffered from bad demons spell design as now.

3. Hardest part of old metamorphosis gameplay is to learn mana/demonic fury cost of our spells in non demon and demon form.
4. Our tankynes was not passive but active mechanics:

• We had more health then all DPS classen in the game

• Our CC toolkit was not pruned like now

• Our mobility was not nerfed like now

• • Demonic circle was baseline
• • Demonic gateways had lower CD
• • Demonic leap was part of Metamorphosis

• We had access to more reliable self healing spell/talents - Dark regeneration for example.

• Soul leech was a talent and not mandatory mechanic.

[Xerses-chants-éternels]

One thing is for sure, they will never go back into complicated designs for any classes. Once its simplified, it stays simplified. Only changes they would make is adding new spells and stuff to make it move diverse but that’s it really.

[Oútkast-draenor (Oútkast)]

Let me tell you how I see this;

• since legion till now I feel like class design is something like a simulation of basic of the game.
  -the class trial was word I was looking for,sadly many of us would actually enjoy BFA if classes were what they used to be during mop/wod.
  -making our basic spells half Into talents and other half Into PvP only talents is disgusting and lazy design.
  (This is my opinion and pov)

[Abyzrael-stormscale]

And this is the reason why devs and designers will be disliked forever PvPers.

Complicated is good for WoW because it creates online heroes that can be something to be looked upon and be impressed and inspired by. WoW stopped being that fantastic game long time ago. Now its just about rng grind and decent teamwork.

[Mêphâlâ-argent-dawn (Mêphâlâ)]

Well if blizzard doesn’t love complicated stuff, then why did they created current demo?
It is 10 times more complicated and busy then WoD/MoP version of demonology. And Current demo requires more design and techical efforts from blizz then MoP one.

[Abyzrael-stormscale]

I dont believe that. MoP Demolocks had loads of more abilities at their disposal than in current iteration.

[Mêphâlâ-argent-dawn (Mêphâlâ)]

More abilities doesn’t mean that their amount will transform your gameplay into some hardcore show.
MoP demo had a complex design, but intuitive gameplay.
Current demo has vay more complecated mechanics.

@Mêphâlâ-argent-dawn

Well let me tell you what you was needed to be avare of in old demonology spec.

1. Cost of your spells in human and demon form.
2. How much Demonic fury do you have ATM.
3. Where is your main demon.
4. How long curruption or Doom will be present on your enemies.

And what do you need to be avare of playing current demo.

1. How much shards do i have.
2. How long my Imps will exist (each stack)
3. How long my dreadstalkers will exist
4. How much energy does my imp have in order to do max damage of implosion.
5. how much of my imps do i have in order to summon my max tyrant.
6. Where is my main demon.
7. when my dreadstalkers will expire to give me a demon core proc.
8. How much of demon core procs do i have.

MoP demo with less things to worry about provided for you more room for improvisation.

[Abyzrael-stormscale]

Well in that case what you are describing is that Demo might be fun to play now after all, even if it plays different than in MoP. I need to test it someday soon. I like to press buttons and think hard all the time and do my best. Cant say yes or no yet. Too many specs on my list atm and I intend to try, learn and play them all.

[Kelznaard-argent-dawn]

Played sl in tbc and I wish aff was more like that than current terrible iteration.

When I came’ back in wod loved demonology.
In legion affliction effigy in raid was alright, felt useful to have sustain and dots as main source of damage and mobility to go soak etc. Nowadays I consider the class dead, it’s terrible.

They need to redesign the class from ground, and stop giving away our visuals (to dh) and gameplay (to sp) to other classes it’s getting old.

[Pocman-zuljin]

[quote=“Jinsk-kazzak, post:1, topic:45822”]
wich expansion did you start and wich is your favourite regarding warlock class design?
[/quote]I started in vanilla, before AQ was released. Played TBC fully, and a bit of WOTLK. Came back for cataclysm, and left the game due to several issues, one of which was that I wasn’t enjoying pvp at the time. Came back for BFA.

Do you like BFA Warlock class design?

NO

What would you change? (small anwser)

Basic lack of resources and toolkit: i have gone from a class that had 2 different mobility abilities, and almost half a dozen ways of controlling my enemies, to a class that has not even a single way of CC or mobility except fear and demonic gateway. From a game that was about countering your enemies abilities with your own, to one where you only need to use your offensive CDs once your enemy has wasted his defensive ones, and that is all about of using your pve rotation effectively. But there are other issues:

• Azerite traits, and, in general, any system that makes your playstyle depend on RNG instead of on proper decisions, is a bad system. i don’t want to be forced to play in a certain way simply because a certain azerite trait refuses to drop.

• Talent design: the basic design of talents is bad and lazy: either there is no real choice because one talent is clearly better than the rest, or the choice is not fun because all the talents provide little in terms of customization of the playstyle.

• Resource system: basically, there are three possible resources now: combo points (and variants), mana, and fury. Almost class goes into one of those categories, which is just bad design.

This issues are very complex, and go well beyond warlocks, affecting almost every class.

Wich tools, if any, would you bring back?

I don’t think it’s about specific tools, but a general issue regarding the number and the strength those tools should have. For example, curses being something that is baseline and lasts “forever” instead of them lasting 10 seconds instead of and being only available if talented, etc.