Raider.io and the new player experience?

Community General Discussion
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Hi. I started playing this game in january and clocked about 300-350 hours or more until late february.

Everything was fine while I was leveling, fetch quests and bars to fill, unironically my favorite things in games. As a new player, I still don’t understand the hate for the game’s current state as I have no knowledge of what there used to be, but that’s not the point. Things went downhill when I leveled up my demon hunter and made him my main because I wasn’t enjoying rogue all that much. I was having a lot of fun after hitting 120, running around zandalar and farming herbs (my favorite activity!), doing warfronts, normal and heroic dungeons and also running old raids for transmogs.

The breaking point was mythic+. Before actually trying to get a group to run m+ dungeons, I thought that I had struck gold with this game, the progression via dungeons system was just so appealing to me. I was at that point where I had to get my ilvl higher than 370, and after getting declined from almost every m+0 group with a few exceptions, I learned that people are using an addon called “raider io” to decide whether or not to invite others into their groups.

So after reading through a couple of threads, the feedback that I got was “make your own group”, so I did and I managed to get up to +7 or +8 once, I can’t really remember, but the amount of time that I had to put into waiting for players to fill up a 5-man lobby on +2s with an ilvl limit of 365 was just insane, and I used to play from around 10 AM - noon until around 5 AM the next day, sometimes i’d even wait around 40 minutes and still have an empty party because DPS keep joining, but not any healers or tanks.

Do people realize that there are new players around? I’m someone who’s willing to learn, and I’m very loyal to games I’m passionate about, and I think WoW is an amazing game, but this community just ruins it for me. I ran into similar problems when I tried to do BOD normal, a raid that drops 385 ilvl gear, exactly what I needed, only to see that I needed to link my achievement/ have 9/9 completion on multiple lobbies, and even a lobby in which I needed 385 ilvl - TO RUN A RAID THAT DROPS 385 GEAR.

What’s the point? My subscription runs out in a week, and I could buy a wow token with the money I made from herbalism, but I’m not going to. I haven’t logged in in about a week and a half. I’ve been playing FFXIV, a game with a subjectively inferior combat system and… really bland transmogs from what I’ve seen. But I’m having more fun, I have around 100 hours clocked so far after a week. Why? Because there’s a novice chat for new players to ask questions in, guilds with personality that aren’t just full of players that get invited randomly, fun side activities and most importantly, no elitism that pushes new players into corners they can’t get out of; gating of other players using ratings or damage meters is banned.

The conclusion? I’m not saying that FFXIV is a better game on its own, because WoW has much better content in the lategame IMO and appeals a lot more to me, but I’m unfortunate enough to be a new player so I’m constantly denied of this content by raider io, an addon that I admit, is useful for post m+10 dungeons, but it’s simply just being abused by the bitter community that’s only looking to make gold and money from selling dungeon/raid runs. See you guys whenever, I might come back when I’m able to do current content without having 15 years of experience with the game.

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If you like the game, then find yourself a nice community, my dude. Not everyone is a poop-hole, but the LFD tool will expose you to the biggest and proudest of them.

It’s not even about experience, it’s about idiots and titanforging (imo).

And yes, raider io in combination with degrading keys is pretty much ruining the community. Game mechanics make people cynical, then player habits form around them. Something DOES need to change to keep the game healthy.

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Thanks a lot for the input, I was expecting negative replies. The thing is it’s really hard to find a good english speaking guild or community to game with, everyone seems to be really sick of BFA and it kinda makes me sad.

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I am also very new to the game and indeed haven’t knocked up some of the things you have.

My experience is rather different to yours and I suspect the main differentiator is joining a Guild. I’ve found a great group to play with, they’ve helped with loads of questions (I am always asking dumb things, wowhead doesn’t answer everything!) and I’ve done dungeons, raids and loads of achievements as well as levelling up. They’ve taken my on tours of old content and brought me up to speed with lore. I am still practicing (hard) but they are loads of fun and very supportive. I am not a great player but I am a member of a great group.

I haven’t had much trouble when I have tried for random groups though I am not looking for very high level stuff however I’ve completed quite a bit of content for a novice due to being invited along.

I have found a lot of people in random groups have been very friendly and encouraging but many people just don’t want to take time to help new players…they’ve seen it and done it and perhaps they are a bit bored of it. Some of the behaviour is a bore but all gaming communities contain a huge number of arses…the trick is finding the bits without them in. There are a lot of jaded people playing the game…luckily we aren’t them.

I would say try a guild and see what you think…it’s the reason I log in and play a lot. There are guilds for all tastes and experience levels and it’s made the game …for me anyway.

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Sorry so new I posted on a trial character above, but this is my main one (know it annoys people to do that !).

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The solution for both raids and M+ is to join a guild.

I feel that pugging this content is for more experienced players who also have a thicker skin. Pugs aren’t ideal places for learning content, because typically people want to get the content done as quickly as possible, and one way of achieving this is by inviting players who have already done this content or over gear it.

There is no lack of applicants for, say, +10 keys or fresh raid IDs, so the leaders pick the best geared or most experienced (RIO score, curve, etc) candidates. As a melee, you also compete with many other people for the same spots, though in M+ (unlike in raids) you have an edge as a DH.

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Right now a large portion of M+ players got the 400 ilvl gear they want and running less than +10 is pointless. For many even +10 has no value and they are at best interested running higher keys for challenge and score. The more human aspect of M+ will be good guilds and communities that run keys even when half of the team has nothing to gain from it. And the dungeons compared to legion are much more complex in terms of pulls, interrupts, cc so average PUG will struggle, people will leave. And as there are no legendaries nor good AP source there as was in Legion - there is even less incentives to mass run whatever M+ you can (still remember mass running NL for Prydaz).

PUGs will get more alive on lower keys when new allied races show up and there will be a lot of Zandalari Trolls gearing up. But that may be a brief period of time.

Also summer WoW Classic launches - there item ilvl inflation will be non-existent, with steady progression and possibly a lot of fun for many months to come. You may want to keep an eye on that.

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Well. That’s how pretty much the community is. There are tons of good people around…and also many censored people. Simply have to be prepared to meet all kinds of fellow players.

Also regarding this raider. io thingy. I am no die-hard raider io defender but I have to ask. Do people really naively think that if Blizzard breaks or makes the addon non-functional. All of sudden m+ will get better(the pug-side of it)?
People will suddenly stop asking for a [insert any random requirement here] before they invite anyone? Please…remove raider .io, will ask simply for something else. Be it logs, some specific achiev or in the worst case->back to the old “Come to bank for inspect”.

Raider .io is simply one of the most popular addons atm to judge people and thus its easier to blame all the problems on it. Blaming a portion of playerbase for abusing the tool is probably more difficult since it becomes a bit…complicated. :smiley:

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I don’t really want it removed, because I do understand how the API works and it’s also a good addon for actual experienced players that just want to play with experienced players but I shouldn’t get declined on +2 lobbies just because everyone has access to the tool.

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Well. I doubt its the case of “everyone having access to it” but more like the mentality issue. People have the tendency to ask for overgeared players(or prioritize them over others in signup sheet) to get a faster run.

I can create a group: +2 Freehold. 415+ ilevel, must have the +15 achieve done, cutting edge(achieve for clearing mythic raid).
Now. Are those requirements unreasonable? Of course they are. Will people actually join my group. Of course they wont…
But…is there a rule which prevents me from asking for too high requirements? Nop. Blizzard cant do anything about it. “My run, My rules”. Its my free right to ask what ever I want…

So…as many other said before already. The only solution is communities,guilds,making your own groups if you have such issues with joining a +2 run?

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you can join the community below and there’re almost always keys going on, and you can find other people to do keys with.

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http://www.darklegacycomics.com/670

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Welcome to World of Warcraft. It’s great to hear from new players and get another perspective.

I’m sorry you’re having a hard time with mythic plus. Don’t be put off by your rocky start. I would recommend trying to join a friendly guild that is willing to do mythic plus. It’s much easier to go with friends or guildmates.

In the meantime you might want to join a community like calm keystones. They run keys without the ridiculous requirements some put on key groups.

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I would be more than happy to help u with some runs. I main a blood dk who is pushing +18 keys, ill gladly help u with mechanics and the the most uselfull basic stuff, lets do some 10 keys and get u some gear. Not everyone with high Rio score are rude. Ofc, once ppl start pushing high keys, one needs to know a lot about the trash and bosses. In BFA trash are more deadly than bosses often, as they have more mechanics.
Add me on Balt#2679 and lets have some fun :slight_smile:

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Hey mate. I am not a big deal but we run lots of m+ on the weekends add me if you wanna tag along Phyxes#21476

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You seem like a fairly intelligent, sound and ambitious player, with loads of time to play. If you put some effort in, you should quite easily be able to find a decent guild that will take you in.

You have reached a point where some effort i required. It’s no longer just sign up, get automatically assigned, and do whatever you want while content is cleared. For M+ and raids (not including LFR), actual people manually have to put together groups. The criterias aren’t based on “elitism”, at least not if the word is defined in amanner that makes sense, but on the desire of the person who makes the effort to build the group to clear the content in a reasonably efficient manner. He doesn’t know you, he uses the information available to him to make assumptions.

You have already noticed the lack of tanks. If you want an easier way into dungeons and raids, level up a tank. If you want to main a lock, be prepared to have to spend more time getting groups, being declined for groups far below your level, etc. It is your choice, not a fault of the game.

And remember, a little effort to find a good guild and/or one or more good communities, and some good friends, will take you a long way and make the game considerably less frustrating.

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I understand that some players are frustrated by the RaiderIO Mythic+ score but in reality, it’s not first system of that kind. Previously there’s been gearscore and you needed a certain score to even join a group. That became item level, a core part of the game and not just an addon, but the problem didn’t go away. Then Ahead of the Curve came along and the same thing happened.

The reality of the modern day WoW is the reliance on a simple system to get a quick measurement of a player. It’s not entirely accurate to the individual situation of every person playing the game but that’s not possible. Outside of joining a guild and potentially going through an application and interview process, which some players hate as it makes WoW a “job”, the current system is probably as good as it’ll get.

Allow me to ask everyone this, would you rather have a Mythic+ score or a world of private communities using Discord (or whatever else) to make groups and filter players out?

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I am in no way a rio-hater, but I do think it needs some adjustment for progressing. Like 1 second out of timer is not -10 points. And 2 chesting should be closer to the in time score of the +1 level of the dungeon.

Also, because of the total score, you are expected to do every dungeon. You are not allowed to just ignore a couple. Or even just trying to push 1 (or 2) dungeons as high as you can. While I have no idea why a Shrine score is important for running a Temple, for example.

The dungeonscores and total scores just keep players from progressing.

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Its really easier to find your own community, I dislike using it but find if I am to ever pug one player you need it and even then its a struggle. Its just alot of people who play wow dont realise that people want to push for progression and it can be really infuriating when some players come expecting to mooch/leech gear.

But yeah power to you if you keep playing =) try and find a guild or pre-made group for M+ if you want to narrow down and push more comfortably for progression.

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Hey mate, i’m far from a top players but me as a healer and my friend who tanks are mostly going up to +10 if we can, you can add me if you want, i dont mind showing you some stuff and taking you with me.
DireRaven#24536