You are kicked around, get a lot of damage, and you are not learning from it? 
(Not YOU of course).
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It will just do a lot of damage and that should make you think “omg it is just a +4 and it chunked my hp, better avoid it in +10”.
Instead people just brainafk sit it, end up dead and wonder why people are tilted.
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Oooof, nail on the head.
It has it’s problems, but the only people who thoroughly hate Rio are the people it’s designed to weed out. Let’s me maximise the chance my group will succeed, or lets me know “hey, don’t join that group you will waste 30 minutes to a bricked key”.
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There is more focus with Raider IO on how experienced an individual player is overall. Across ALL Mythic+ dungeons they have completed.
For example. There is someone looking for another player to do KR +13. I’ve done that over 50 times, all timed. You’ve done every +13 timed on every Mythic+ once. You would have a higher score and would be more likely to be invited.
That is not a measure of experience.
X has done this difficulty 100 times on this dungeon with a 37% completion rate, Y has done this difficulty 5 times on this dungeon with 100% completion rate.
I don’t believe that is ‘super complicated’ but okay?
Not at all. It would be a useful statistic to know because it would tell you exactly how experienced a player is overall on a certain affix and that specific dungeon’s mechanics.
And everyone has had an experience with a high RIO player being terrible. Let’s not pretend.
You missed the point on that one. If I was to do +1 all the way to +7 on a specific Mythic+ (i.e. the same one), I would have more points than someone that threw themselves in the deep end immediately with a +8 but with consistent success.
An analogy to make that easier to understand would be if you were to create a product, start a successful business quickly and become a massive multi-billion public traded company… Then someone comes along to tell you your company is terrible because you didn’t begin selling your product at a garage sale.
Why an honest debate on RIO will never happen.
I don’t hate RIO, I use it regularly, I believe it is a good base to build on to ultimately make something better. Which is precisely why I believe Blizzard should intervene because they have access to every bit of data required to make that happen.
What I hate, consider to be toxic, is the belief that RIO is the be all/end all on measuring player experience and gating higher Mythic+ difficulties. Especially when advocates for it can also identify the flaws it currently has.
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At this point, people who complain about IO scores are just becoming more and more ridiculous.
Remember how in elementary schools, children used to measure heights and compare it with one another? There’s a +18 version of this too, but you get the idea.
You’re complaining about the existence of a measuring tool instead of realizing that regardless of there being a raider IO or not, people will still find a way to measure your dungeon and raid success in order to kick or approve you.
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rio in it self is fine, and do make groups smoother, but it has its flaws.
new players any who do not use it, gets shafted, even from low keys, (yes I have been shafted as healer for +3 lol).
also what it is redicilous is people asking for high rio score, when they them self do not have it at all, even if they are on an alt you can se their mains score.
so people get annoyed becuse they dont get in to a run even their score is higher than the person who made the run, seen it my self someone whit 600 score asking for 1.5k rio people like lol, honestly.
personaly I dont care that much, I seldom pug anyways, have no need for it, but I can understand peoples frustraition when they get shafted due to people literaly abusing the rio score for their own agendas.
I have joined groups asking for rio, gotten in even if I am the lowest score there, and then the persons whit high scores mess up all the time, it happens and it happens often even for keys below +12.
then again also, why try to join a group when you se the creator of the group got a rio score over 2k, and you are at like 1k or so, it is pointless to try, unless the group states boosting a friend or something, then you might have a chance to get in.
It’s not super complicated, it’s straight up impossible because Blizzard doesn’t provide the data to begin with.
It is tho, I am overall more experienced than you but we are equally experienced in a specific dungeon.
That is usually a player mistake and not an addon problem. A lot of people look at the specific dungeon experience.
Feel free to not believe it but you should put information in the game that let raiderio track this things. Raider IO do not generate info by itself so unless blizzard let more information be accessible raider Io can’t improve.
So yes it is difficult to implement.
Yeah like once in 50 dungeon probably, that does not mean rio is bad.
They are putting in their own rio in Shadowlands if I am not wrong
In my own experience people has the following mindset.
You remember things that kill you, the things that made your group fail/wipe, and if someone says in chat “Run away from charge!!!”, “Interrupt!!!” or “Face the mob away from the raid!!!” , “Move him away from the totem!!”, “Kill totems first!!!”
You dont remember the things that did a certain amount of damage to you that got healed a second later, or the things that made your Ice Barrier disapear and removed 20-30% of your HP.
And this only 1 example. There are other tacts that does absolutely no damage, but gets to wipe your raid. Like in Underrot in 2nd boss (if i remember). The boss that leaves cocoons behind when he charges. If you fight that boss with the group spread out it will spawn cocoons all over the place and it will be hard to step on all of them to destroy them. This wont make your group wipe at low keys, but in higher keys, its an auto wipe.
EDIT: Dont get me wrong. I am not saying i’m an expert or something. I did the exact same mistakes when i first met these bosses in +10 and +11. I still learn and i’m pretty sure i will fail at certain bosses that i havent done on higher keys yet.
But i will learn from it, and i will not make the same mistakes again.
Also sometimes i meet very helpfull players that whispers me my mistakes during the dungeon. I LOVE that kind of attitude, and beleive me… i do the same thing to other players when i spot that they did something wrong.
Well that is simply the wrong mindset then.
People say that they don’t get invited to keys and so they can’t experience dungeons and blame raider io, but when they get to experience the dungeon they don’t learn.
Analyzing in this game is important, if a boss chunk your HP in a low keys or even in M0 when you are ungeared it should make you think " maybe I should use a personal here or avoid it if it is avoidable".
Saying “oh well I just got healed back up screw it” won’t help you improve.
Mistakes can happen to anyone at any difficulty and at any level of experience, that is not my point.
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Indeed its impossible to do because 3rd party software doesnt have access to all of Blizzard’s database. But it could be possible if Rio had a “requirement” of installing an addon that tracks all these things on its own i think.
I usually assume players are like you and me. Just gamers. People will make mistakes and probably on a lower key people make more mistakes than in my own set M+ group. I know i am going to heal more in there.
I am pretty sure people notice they get damage, but along the levels of M+ they will start learning avoiding more and more 
Like on +21 waycrest pigboss with my group i go full HA + wings on pull and do 70k dps in the first minute with an initial heal in between. I am never going to do that on a +10 with a pug But these players will learn too! I am sure.
You are on kazzak so you might know if you do runs with people all from kazzak on lower keys you have a big chance to not get score. The system is not perfect.
It’s not about a perfect system or an imperfect one.
People will judge other people based on something.
If not raider IO, then achievements, or some other random addon.
What i’m saying is, you can’t stop the problem with stopping one single tool that helps it.
Yes but if you are in a +10 with less experienced player you are still “boosting” them.
A less experienced healer won’t have the reaction time you have and won’t be able to cover people screwing up.
That is why the attitude of not watching what happens until it kills you is wrong.
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This is going back and forth.
In low keys things happens really fast, bosses die really fast and you dont even get to see the full length of the boss. My barrier for example absorbs 180k damage, and a boss ability that i should have avoid does 220k. It will actually do 40k noticable damage on me. If you also have a priest’s shield on you it will do zero noticable damage to you.
It will not make me think “Wow, it did 40k damage on me, i better stop casting my Glacial Spike and avoid it next time”. Its only natural that you think that way.
Rio is sadly necessary. PvE content get harder (Contrary to popular believes) thus people who don’t know mechanics are the reason there are wipes. I do accept mistakes. However, not at +15, where players are supposed to know at least boss mechanics and 75% of trashs. Don’t get me wrong here, we can learn…in +5, not in +15.
Also, if Blizzard were to kill their API, thus ending raider Io, the new system would be worse, by miles.
I am more or less thinking healers are boosting anyway. I had this specific conversation with my own M+ group before, and it is a returning topic.
My tank mentioned somewhere along the road that we had to start doing dungeons without me using cooldowns at all. Just find out where the real damage is, what is preventable and what is not. Because we are muscleing through specific parts of dungeons. it is healable, so it is fine. It is a healer attitude to help out others. And it is not that i am a perfect player either of course. We had 2 players hit by a tenderize on the 21 waycrest tyrannical (because of slows) and nobody died. I heal it, no problem
I am doing ‘the same’ amount of healing for the whole road, while mostly i am working myself on being more efficient with bubble/sac, or aura mastery (so preventing damage on the group/tank), and my own dps. There are like ‘no’ points where healing throughput is the problem for advancing.
It is just what it is, i suppose
Yeah 0 noticeable except your barrier getting deleted with a single hit. That is the point.
Also it does 0 noticeable damage to you if you do low keys completely overgearing them.
If you do a +5 keys with a 430 alt group you will have a easier time spotting harder hitting abilities that you won’t notice if you do a 8 with like 470 ikvl
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