Raidfinder - Need before greed - Problem

Personal Loot was better simply because it takes the player hurdle out of the equation.

Nearly everyone will suffer this change over at some point.

The lower tier progressing player will suffer loosing out on rolls against a mythic gear endgame player rolling for transmogs and visa versa.

The goblins and trolls with still be goblins and trolls no matter what changes.

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I never beg for loot, especially in random environments because I will loot the same later or similar items.

If a higher-geared player wants to give it and makes the call for a roll, surely I will roll for it. If I can’t win the roll, I won’t look back.

If a higher-geared player doesn’t make any call, I will never ask for the loot because this is very disturbing for those who loot and want to keep it for themselves for any reason.

No one is compelled to share his/her loot with others, especially with some randoms.

Sharing my loot with randoms is very situational. If those randoms put all their sincere efforts to produce my loot, most likely I will share my loot with them. But if those randoms are lying on the ground in almost all encounters including trash packs, most likely I will keep my loot for my vendor spec.

If I intend to share my loot and am about to make a roll call but if someone whispers to me for the loot just before the roll call, I won’t share my loot.

Likewise, if those randoms start shooting at other randoms “what are you doing, t9rds!!! Noobs!!!” et cetera, I will never ever share my loot with those randoms.

It is my loot after all.

My loot.

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Completely valid
Gear will only last you till the treadmill resets for the next patch.
Transmog is forever.

This post was offered to you by RP gang

I don’t understand why Blizzard thought this is a good idea. They stopped group loot years ago for exactly this reason.

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In Germany there is a saying that goes: Ich muss nicht verstehen ( I don’t need to understand).

And this apply here, u dont need to undestand why they changed it, just go with it.

Evenso maybe blizz saw that isolate more and more the social interaction among players was not a good idea and reversed the changes.

Personally i just dont get it the ragecry right now, it was said many times, that the change in the loot came with a LOT of limitations in terms of click on -need-, like class and spec.

Even if you all are gonna rage response me with , booooo, ninjaloot, friends are gonna loot-trade me after need and all that kind of despair gotta say some things.

Before the loot change a friend could also trade you the item that was given to him.

With the Exp bonus i took my time to lvlup 2 alters in last week, all went to 60 and did the ALL 3 wings of LFR, and i hav to say, that none in all of those 60 bosses, i could see a item that was not given to a player that didnt needed.

When loot drops you can see the rolls elections of other players, and i saw a LOT of ppl that passed the roll, cos they even didnt need the item, i saw a LOT of ppl that gave items away.

So stop with the doom, cos you players of LFR that are there for the LORE and the FUN, are the only one ragging bc of loot.

Instead of an automated “Need” for everyone from Blizzard? what’s the difference again? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

This.
LFR is basically solo-mode. It’s kind of naive of Bliz to think that the playerbase will act socially outside of social groups (guilds, communities or RL friends). This is not 2005 where players co-operated and traded loot just because it was the nice thing to do.
Even though if everyone did act like they used to back in the day most people would benefit as they’d receive as many trades as they gave away over the longer term. But vendoring gear for a quick 50g now probably means they won’t get that one piece they really want in future as the culture is not about trading.

LFR and Random Dungeons should be Personal Loot. If you can’t choose who to group with you should not be forced into having to beg for loot.

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Just add the gold value of the item to the greed button.
People needing it for vendoring could just press greed for a 100% guaranteed gold reward.
No need to go sell it or such, just BOOM gold in your bag.

Leaving need only for those who needs the upgrade, want transmog or is an enchanter.

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It’s odd because I thought all these things were already meant to exist.

  • In the past, Need/Greed only knew if something was equippable or the right armor type, not if it was meant for your spec or not. This is now changed.

  • First off, you can never Need for anything your class cannot wear. No warriors sniping cloth robes with a need roll and giving it away or trolling.

  • We also have mainspec and offspec functionality built-in, which changes based on the current loot spec you set.

  • Main spec takes priority, then Off spec, then greed. So while a Ret paladin can’t off-spec loot a shield away from a main-spec roll from the Tank, anyone rolling greed could never win it over them. This also means that if you swap specs for a specific fight, like going Holy, you can still main spec roll for your desired items if they come from that boss without having to worry about hurting yourself by being flexible to your group.

  • Players won’t be able to win multiples of the same item - say that 2 sets of Shoulders drop. While you can roll Need on both of them, winning one will ‘remove’ your roll from the other.

  • Additionally, players can’t Need on a piece of loot if they’re wearing the exact piece at the exact item level, though in the event where this occurs but the dropped piece has a Tertiary stat or Socket, that roll would be possible (as those are upgrades).

  • Lastly, even after winning the roll, items remain fully tradeable without restrictions to any player that was eligible as a looter - as-in, if you weren’t locked to that boss previously. Inversely, this means that players who have already killed Boss 1 on Normal for the week can’t join for that boss and have loot traded to them (similarly, the need/greed pane won’t appear for that player).

Judging by the reports we’ve had on the forum, it’s not actually working as intended.

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I can agree with some of the things you say, but I disagree in some, let me explain:

To provide that feedback is ok, I cannot disagree with what you WANT, and your opinion matters to blizzard as much as everyone’s else.
I do not really disagree with the idea that you could have the CHOICE to have personal loot. I mainly think that blizzard will use the first season as testing ground, and then let every group make their choice, but with 2 caveats:

  • Choosing group loot or personal loot would be raidwide (cannot have people in the same raid with both personal loot AND group loot)

  • Personal loot should have its trading restrictions. The removal or trading restrictions are good for group loot, but personal loot would become too degenerate without trading restrictions (class stacks, split runs, degenerate social behaviors)

And where I disagree:

I 100% support your opinion that YOU feel back with how group loot works, and YOU feel bad when you see an item drop that you want and someone else gets it.
But that is NOT OBJECTIVE. There are MANY people (me included) that prefer to actually see the item being rolled for, because even if someone else got it, the item by itself dropped.

With personal loot I felt that there is 0 chance of getting an item from a boss, and that because the chance was SO SMALL that it would feel bad 95% of times. Now with group loot you feel good when it drops, but its ok if someone else gets it, because “I” prefer it over personal loot.

But again this is MY opinion, and just as I cannot claim it is OBJECTIVE, I cannot agree with your opinion/experience being objective.

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No it’s not. But what IS objective is the fact that MOST people feel like that in a pug environment. Remember; I’m not talking about a pre-made or guild raid here. These are strangers and it’s completely normal to place yourself above a complete stranger in a situation like that.

So it IS objective because it’s based on a normal, understandable behaviour/feeling for the majority of people who participate in PUG content.

Interesting that happens in LFR … :confused:

I did all 3 raids on normal this week… In pugs, there was no loot drama at all …

This so much …
from the 3 raids i cleared on normal, i got the same amount of gear as i would with personal loot, but it felt way more satisfying than personal loot… Sure only 1 of those items was from a need roll … But then, how is that different from personal loot.

Just wondering, did you also make these posts when the same people got the same items with personal loot and didn’t want to trade them away? :slight_smile:

I think the problem here is, is that Blizzard doesn’t want 2 seperate loot systems in the game. That’s why they went with personal loot in the first place.
I just think they now went the other way, which favours guilds and pre-mades, but screws over the PUG scene. And I just don’t think that’s a good ‘solution’ then, when the real solution would have been to fix the trading rules for personal loot.

Sorry but I disagree with you, and let me explain on what point:

What you are doing is extrapolate what you seem logical to you, to the rest of the playerbase.
You CANNOT claim that most people thing like that just because YOU feel that this is normal, UNLESS you have evidence to back this up.

I can, because it’s basic human psychology. There’s mountains of evidence for that and I’m not going to be sharing all of it just to make a point on a gaming forum. :kissing_heart: :sweat_smile:

All you have to do is to run LFR a few times this week to know what you write is true. Mood is totally changed since patch. Every other raid turns into a huge fight about who rolled for what. I can’t even remember seeing that before even once in this whole expansion. I think its made worse by the fact we have a long wait time between loot drop and the roll. This builds anticipation and everyone sits and watches people choose roll type and finally after long waiting gets a name for the reason they lost.

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Upgrades should always be prio over transmog

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Just wondering, did you also complain when personal loot awarded the high ilvl dude the gear and he didnt trade it away to someone where it was an upgrade?

Not when the ilvl is lower than world quest or emissary/calling ilvls. LFR’s only reason to do is for transmog for a lot of people. You take that away.

Source: “Trust me bro”

But for a more serious answer: It is not basic human psychology.
Psychology MIGHT have a part in play when MAKING the group with the current system (you would want to minimize the people that would compete with you for a certain drop, as an example NOT bringing another ranged hunter in a pug you want a bow).

In your starting explanation you claim:

What you are describing is HIGHLY personal, and have NOTHING to do with human psychology. In fact it is telling of underlying problems.
Not understanding that others from your group have the same “claim” to the item that you, and feeling that the items dropped and “belongs” to you is more akin to narcissistic behavior. I do not think you can extrapolate that to most of the playerbase.

In case of loot that drops and you do not get, there are 3 possible outcomes to your feelings:

  • Feeling abit sad that you lost the item, but also feeling good that another player is happy with his drop (generally people more empathic).

  • No relevant feeling, since it is just an item that you did not get, no difference from personal loot (this might be more rational people).

  • Not only feeling sad about not getting the item, but also feeling sad because you feel “robed”/jealous of the other one that got it (generally more self centered people).

All players drop in the spectrum of those outcomes. With that I believe I communicated my disagreement and you understand how claiming “most people would prefer to something not drop at all than see them lose the roll” is not OBJECTIVE.