Raiding and Mythic+ "am I ready?" recommendations

Community General Discussion
1

I might get some hate on this idea, but here goes! :slight_smile:

Every time I begin a new season, this thought always crosses my mind when I’m considering attempting a new Mythic key or browsing the active raid finder groups: “Am I good enough, and am I ready?”

I would really love it if Blizzard introduced a system that provides recommended item levels and perhaps the kind of DPS or HPS you’d need for a specific key level to successfully beat the timer. Remember, it would only be a recommendation, if a player is naturally very confident and very good at the class or game, they can still attempt something higher and ignore the recommendation.

Personally, this would help me plan my next steps more effectively and avoid wasting other people’s time. It might also ease the obsessive tendency of some players to only invite those they believe are powerful enough. (I’m not entirely sure about this, but I’m hopeful.)

A quick example:

Let’s say I’ve completed everything at M+2 and now I want to push higher. If I could see the recommended requirements for a +5 and realise my item level and/or HPS (as a healer) is too low, that’s perfect — I’ll aim for a +4 instead!

This could be hugely beneficial for players lacking confidence and would help create more balanced groups by encouraging inclusivity rather than favouring only the “meta” classes.

I will now sit back and watch you all hate me! :stuck_out_tongue:

2

There arent really any proper recommendations. Pugs will always ask for ilvl that is beyond reason anyway on top of it.

Some people did 10s with 640 for instance. Others might need 650 or higher.

And Blizzard has never been good with recommendations. So whatever they recommend is best of being ignored.

1 Like
3

I think its hard to recommend something for group content since you are reliant of the ones you play with and their performance aswell. If no one kicks or do mechanics, it can feel like hell to heal even a low key as high geared healer.

4

It’s impossible to measure because it depends on other players. No one makes it alone in WoW.

For example I did a Workshop +2 while OP as heck and the healer didn’t dispel me during robo dog so I kept dying.

5

No, please stop with these requests for handholding. You did it with asking Blizz to give recommendations for Brann. For Gods sake, figure this stuff out for yourself.

The way to find out if your ready is to go in and try. If you succeed move up, if you fail move down.

3 Likes
6

There are always 2 players with the debuff. So 1 need to get dispelled and 1 need to get healed, or presses a defensive/health potion.
With more than 1 pack at the time gets pulled, unprepared people will die since more than 2 players get the debuff.

7

If you are worried about failure, i’d recommend joining some communities to do m+ and raid with in a toxic free environment. Just work your way up.

2 Likes
8

Think they mean the tank debuff during the boss?

3 Likes
9

There are recommendations for Delves which are completely off :joy:

If you had easy or fairly easy time timing those 8s then you are ready for 9s.

10

I mean the bite from the dog boss. My bad I forgot about the trash dogs and didn’t specify.

11

I see. Well yeah. You can’t prevent that, i am afraid.

1 Like
12

The HPS, ilvl, and DPS requirements dont depend on you, the player. It depends on the team.

For example, in a Raid: How much DPS should YOU do (minimum)? That is the wrong question. The right question is: How much overall DPS should the total raid do for this boss? So its your DPS + the DPS of ALL your teammates what matters.

For example, in M+: Its not just HPS, ilvl, and DPS. How many kicks the group has (and if they use them) is also really important. What comp you play is also really important.

And so on. Putting a recommendation will just confuse people. Because you would give the wrong impression that the “requirements” depend on YOU. The player. When in reality, they dont.

The solution to lack of confidence is to grow a pair. Its a game. Its not like we are investing our life’s savings in Bitcoin.

Blizzard should absolutely NOT babysit people with low confidence. We are all adults wasting our time in a game… FFS!

13

peopel dont care about recomended itlvs though

look at dvelves - how many of 620 itlv people whines that they fail when trying to do +11 which is recomended as 658 :slight_smile:

1 Like
14

The DPS is kind of easy to present. Simply add up the hp of trash enemies required to reach 100%, then add the hp of the bosses and divide by the timer for depletion.

HPS is a bad measure because HPS is no longer as good an indicator for healers as it was back in the pre-Cata times. Damage is not consisent, it’s spiky. Someone with horrible hps due to gear but amazing reflexes is a more reliable healer than someone in full BiS but with 2+ second reflexes. Not only that, the majority of damage in pugged low-difficulty keys is from avoidable sources. A group that avoids all damage and knows when to use defensives and interrupts makes the healer almost useless in those keys, while a group that avoids only 50% of avoidable damage and doesn’t use defensives or interrupts requires a hypergeared healer with phat skillz to not wipe every 3rd pull.

I blame the fact that the majority of damage in any part of the game nowadays is from avoiding/interrupting mechanics, whereas in the past you had somewhat constant damage intake and smaller spikes when failing mechanics. It’s why a lot of fights in the past were gearchecks.

15

So much better now than before.

It sucks to fail mechanics because you did not farm enough. Or because you did not hop all those extra hoops of things you need for the gear.

Today is better. Either you got skill, or you dont. Its not “either you got time, or you dont”. Which was the situation in the past.

1 Like
16

I completely understand that no system is foolproof. No system can perfectly manage elite players, novices, angry kids, or frustrated adults. There will always be skill gaps, lag issues, and server disconnections – it’s inevitable. However…

Here are two examples:

1. Healer
Mythic +5 – 1 tank and 3 DPS ready.

In this scenario, no healers are signing up – until suddenly, a healer with a 622 ilvl and 300 rating expresses interest. The group leader, who has probably never played as a healer, invites him because he has no idea what a healer is capable of at 622 ilvl in a +5. The healer, who likely performed well in a +2, assumes they can handle a +5 because the game doesn’t give any indication that they might struggle.

They start a Priory run, and as usual, the tank pulls six trash packs at once. The healer is undergeared and inexperienced, everyone dies, the healer feels awful, and the group blames him.

Now, if there were a “recommendation” system, the healer might have reconsidered signing up for the +5 in the first place. Even if they did, the group leader would have seen that the healer was below the recommended ilvl and might have thought twice before inviting them.

2. DPS
Mythic +5 – Group is forming and a third DPS joins.

Similar to the healer scenario, the group leader sees the rating and ilvl but doesn’t know much about which DPS class to take. Perhaps they’ve heard from a streamer that Shadow Priests are strong, so they invite the Priest.

Everything seems fine at first – everyone’s happy and chatting in party chat. They arrive at the dungeon, cast buffs, and start the run.

Several trash packs and mini-bosses are cleared, but the timer is slipping away. Suddenly, there’s real concern they won’t finish in time.

Three of four bosses down, only four minutes remaining. Here’s how the DPS meters look (I’ve actually seen this happen!):

  • Fire Mage – 2.4 million DPS
  • Retribution Paladin – 2.1 million DPS
  • Shadow Priest – 1.1 million DPS

At this point, it’s too late to swap out the Priest. The underperformance means the group is likely to miss the key timer.

Again, if the Priest had been aware of a recommended DPS and ilvl, they might not have signed up for the +5, and the group leader might have avoided inviting them if they saw the Priest was below the recommended threshold.

17

This can’t work, because a healer does higher HPS if their group is bad and a dps does higher dmg if the tank pulls bigger packs.

Just progress one level at a time and see where your wall is, if you feel insecure. Also bad HPS/DPS don’t neccesarily mean a wipe or a depletion.

18

looks like pretty bad examples.

first nobody invites a ilvl 610 dps to a +5 these days.
If someine performs so badly in fpd or healing it is more likely they are just not good at the game and wont be in the near future.
even if that players has now ilvl 650 will still fail even though they are above the recommended ilvl.

because lets face it, can you do a +10 in ilvl 630? yup, can you fail a +2 at ilvl 630? yes you can as well.

ilvl and rio has little information regarding to performance. they give you a mere glimpse of how good someone is. it get better with more dungeons showing up on their rio. 40 +10 dungeons timed hives a good indication if someone is balast or not, even though technically they still could be dead weight.

you cannot set recommendations but if you really need a recommendation you can see what the loot ilvl is and goe with roughly -3 of that to know that you definitly should be able to time the key if your and your group is not terrible at the game.

19

Or the tank is just pulling normal and the healer is totally fine and you +2 the key.

I wouldnt even be able to heal that +5 on my 655+ char like you described. Wipe fest. But i timed up to +11 already.

Your Recommandation system should say “Below +12, pull 1 pack at a time and GG!”.

A healer can actually heal a +5 on 622 ilvl. I healed a very easy +4 Priory on 626 with like 10 or 11 minutes in time. It just depend on the group.

20

How about a “recomendation system” to the key holder that inviting a healer with 622 and 300 rating is a bad idea?

And I double down the question. What criteria did he use to invite the 3 DDs in the first place? Did he ALSO not know that low ilvl and rating is probably a bad DD?

Here is my question. If the key holder dosent know about SP in your DPS scenario, how did he invite the other 2 DDs? Under WHAT criteria?

Look. Everyone has to learn these things. Key holders. And key applicants.

And there is only ONE way to know: Try. Thats IT.

Not every run has to be a success. Sometimes, its a lesson. Deal with it.