Why are there 11 bosses, that nobody cares about? Raiding in Shadowlands is a time-wasting simulator. Why not have 4-6 good high-quality Bosses, that people enjoy killing? It’s just a waste of money to design so many bosses, that nobody wants to do.
Heroic raiders have no reason to step into sepulcher, when they can do easier mythic+ dungeons, and get better loot, because a lot of people play for gear/comsetics.
Mythic raiding is overdesigned to artificially make RWF last longer. You should design Mythic raids to be clearable for like 1-3% of active pve players on release within a month. Else, you literally just waste your time on creating/balancing content, that almost nobody enjoys. When it gets to a difficulty, where people, who do heroics, not even consider trying mythic after 2 months, then you have a problem.
Splitting up a raid tier into multiple smaller raids is also a solution.
Example: For dragonflight, you could split the tier in 2 Smaller Dragon Lairs, that drop bis trinkets with 2-3 Bosses each. Clearing them would then attune you permanently to fight a a big boss on top of a mountain, that you can only reach after having advanced dragonflying.
The majority of Blizz games are loot games. Diablo? Diablo 2? Vanilla WoW (Where you could randomly get epic BoE items at level 40? WC3, had RnG loot drops… And that was a RTS… AoE2 snobs hated that part of the game.
The entire ´oH mY gOd wHy cAn´T u bE aS cOOl aNd rAtiOnAl aS mE aNd PlAy fOr fUn´ argument is so bizarre when historically Blizzard games have almost always been loot and RnG heavy.
That’s not a matter of number of bosses being made per tier, SoO and Antorus were enjoyable despite having 13 and 11 bosses. Heck, even HFC had 15 of them.
I would agree bosses are being made too gimmicky and that Blizzard should just declare forfait against addons, ie they should aknowledge they’ve lost that fight and should stop slowing RWF guilds because in the end, 2000 guilds in the workd will actually suffer from such design. Even Limit’s GM said in live that desining around 1% of 1% is completely stupid since it would affect negatively active players (Which as it turns out is a stupid idea).
On that side note, Blizzard designers should also learn that stacking mechanics does not imply fun, in any shape or form.
I think it’s just a waste of money though, because I think it’s better to have 6 Hard High Quality Bosses, that take you like 2 hours per week, than having a giant 11 boss raid.
I’d like to see 3 Dragon Lairs (3 Raids) in Dragonflight with 2 Bosses each.
Assuming we’re living in a post Legion wow, then sadly I don’t believe they would make “good” small raid tiers. The other solution would be splitting up wings as instances but I guess that won’t solve the issue from your pov.
Also, that raises another question, which is how many pulls should each boss be taking ?
If Bosses are just a cake walk, then raiders will quit because it’s not what we’re looking for. On the other hand of the spectrum, a tier like Crucible would be as bad, since nobody would play such content.
one of the main reasons i have not even attempted to go further in this patch. If I am asked to come help out I will go but when I get fed up I simply just leave. It eventually comes to a point of where its just not fun and more annoying.
I agree. 11 bosses are also imo too many. 6 would be the right limit from my personal opinion. Anything longer than 6 feels more like work than playing a game.
Also, Raids need to be more interesting. I hope DF with the crafting mats will make it more interesting to Raid. I attempted only 1 raid run for Sepulcher and raided like 2-3 times Sanctum of Domination on normal. Other than that I not really bothered raiding in SL at all. Something I do on higher occasion in Destiny 2.
And that’s from someone who did progression raiding in vanilla; yeah sure we had fun nights, but that wasn’t because of the raid, but rather in spite of it. We had fun because we were fooling around and having a laugh with real life friends and online friends alike.
The raid was ‘just there’.
I hated being on kiting duty, or tranq duty, or pulling duty. Stupid mechanics for stupidly long fights. And they’re still too long today with way too many mechanics and gimmicks.
So I agree with OP; make the raids have a small number of bosses.
I still won’t like doing it, but at least there would be less of them to do. Doing 11 bosses divided into 4 LFR wings and thus waiting an insanely long time before I can just finish the raid is NOT fun.
This is the issue. M+ has ruined raiding. Although you can’t get highest ilevel from m+ it’s great enough to invalidate most raiding. There’s also a greater variety of gear so your also potentially make the Mythic raid less desirable.
As I have been saying for years now: WoW needs seperate gear progression for the different endgame options. So they don’t cannibalize off of each other.
[quote=“Onimaru-tarren-mill, post:1, topic:366208”]
Heroic raiders have no reason to step into sepulcher, when they can do easier mythic+ dungeons, and get better loot,[/quote]
It’s wonderful, I am actually starting raiding again for the first time since Wrath.
I simply don’t have a life that I can “schedule round raids” to get gear.
Now I can, “fit in” mythics, to get decent gear.
This allows me into casual "normal " raids where I can start to learn an practice the encounters.
For the first time in almost a decade I have a route back into raiding that hasn’t been available to me since I realised I couldn’t live my life round a WOW raiding schedule
Mythic+ loot overlapping in Ilvl definitely interferes with raiding but that isnt the main reason why Mythic+ so popular. Proper Small scale endgame without heavy requirement for time commitment is the major reason and progressive scaling with key levels. Since having to be suck for 2-4 hours for a few pieces of loot in a heroic raid isnt as appealing to me the more I have aged and have less easily available free time including my friends. On the contrary of being able to pump out mythic keys with less investment and overall alot more fun design which is less stale. Blizzard just needs to make raids fun again and not have 50 trillion bosses in them alongside with more seasonal actives/affixes to raids that can change the fight alongside the raid rotation cuz raiding as a whole is a dying art in mmos and in Wow Blizzard catering to the top 1% for raid designs only makes it faster
They should change raiding to be like Gruul/onyxia/etc with 2-3 extremely high quality bosses inside, that drop insane gear. They should also make heroics give 278 ilvl great vault rewards alongside making mythic raids accessible to around 5% of the active raiding population.
With the development time they save, they can actually make Mythic+ fun aswell, and maybe bring a new set of dungeons every season alongside recycling old ones, that are put into some sort of rotation, that the community voted for (Season 4, every season, but brand new dungeons mixed with old, instead only old ones).
I’m all for raids with fewer but more interesting boss fights but I don’t think this will solve WoW raiding issues.
WoW has a problem with its raids being needlessly complicated. People have come to think that this has happened because the Dev team are only designing fights for RWF and top 1-2% players and you’d only be half right thinking this way.
A lot of the problems within modern game design actually stem from the playerbase.
Human beings by our very nature are incredibly good problem solvers. In video games this has led to us optimising the fun out of the games we play. Even going as far as completing content in a manner that we don’t even find enjoyable because it’s more efficient. In response to this game developers are forced to throw more and more “stuff” into thier games to keep us busy & hopefully still having fun… of course this doesn’t always work as planned.