No but another million children would.
You donāt need to; I was there.
1 million children are more important than 1 thousand tho.
Elitists in what sense? Elitism has always been in the game. And Survival hunterās rotation is not hard at all. In fact I have all the four buttons bound to my mousewheel + shift, which I can just execute just as easily as I would my shadow priestās. None of the specs in this game (0/0) have complex rotations and/or gameplay, just different.
How dare people play the game as optimally as possibleā¦Elitistsā¦Badā¦
Idk why are you even bringing up assa, assaās been viable since the start of this expansion. It just isnāt the best and seeing as Assa and Sub donāt even play so differently changing from one spec to another is very easy to do.
Youād fit right in with the Blizzard developer who said itās players fault they didnāt like his corruption gameplay, azerite armor or other things. Or maybe they are just wrong, who knows.
Anyway in compensation for being āharder to playā (it isnāt), Survi should do the best damage- And when it even does this, it still isnāt played.
You could crank up survivalās damage up as much as youād like and nobody would still play it because itās gameplay is contradictory to what it is trying to achieve.
Shadow priest doesnāt play at all like it did in BFA. Save for pressing void bolt after every 2 abilities you cast, the rotation for both ST and AOE is completely different. Also you are no longer squishy and people must respect your defensive cooldowns and utility. The change was massive, even according to Blizzard themselves when they revealed the reworked spec.
I mean, it literally goes to show that if you just keep pointing out the bad stuff long enough, eventually they have to budge? Which is the truth.
Honestly, Iād be fine with deadzone coming back to the game. I think that could be a cool con for hunters that theyād have to play around- But all specs definitely should be primarily ranged.
1 Like
Well then you, sir, are not playing your class properly. Survival has more necessary keybinds than almost any other class (bar resto/ele sham).
You might get your rocks off doing ābig d!ckā damage, but there are a lot of us that get more thrills from making well executed plays and using your classes abilities to secure wins and essentially be good at your class. Iād rather that, than hit 3 buttons and top the meters.
2 Likes
I agree for the shadow priest, but I repeat they did not turn him into a melee of warrior. In the end it is still the shadow priest.
Amazing how much you donāt understand things. Iām not saying that SV is mechanically difficult to play, I use a 23-button mouse, the point is that you really have to have a sense of play to play it at a certain level, thatās why itās difficult. A banal example, there is no massive difference in pvp between the average and pro ww monk, they will both make a similar dps, the main difference will be in survival and timing and you donāt have too many options for outplaying and creativity in general. When you play against ww monk in arenas you have the impression that you are playing against the same player over and over again, the same goes for the warrior and many others. While when you play against SV you will be able to notice a huge difference between bad, average and excellent SV, and I say that from personal experience. Some arenas against SV are never easier, and some a real nightmare. When I say difficult, I mean the sense of play, the tools he has and when you will use them and in what way, and not how many buttons you have to press. It has huge potential for outplay and you canāt say that for most other classes/specs. There is another story in pve, for me personally all classes/specs are easy for pve, the only thing that can be difficult is the mechanics of the dungeon and raid and thatās it.
When I talk about elitists, I mean people who only and exclusively choose op/broken classes/specs and others a little worse not, not because they are bad but because they are not op/broken. For example, if they make SV that can kill people in 2 gcds as a sub and you will see how the population of SV hunters will magically increase incredibly overnight, it will suddenly become the best spec in the game. Thatās the mentality of todayās players, and it has nothing to do with class/spec design.
If you donāt understand what people are talking about, then at least donāt talk too much yourself. I understand you donāt like the current SV, so donāt play it and choose one of the two offered ranged specs. Plain and simple. A lot of us like the current SV and we are happy to have the opportunity to play this fun spec and we will definitely play it. See you 
1 Like
I have played it for 3 weeks at max level with the last week at 202 item level and am near 1600 cr facing people with 1800+ rating and much better gear so I would hope I know at least a bit what the hell am I doing lol.
Iām not the best of course but to try and say that āBro survival rotation is rly hardā¦ā is just flat out wrong and false.
I didnāt argue that, people play demonology too even when it is a complete dog tier spec since Legion. Some people even like Outlaw, for some reason. You can like whatever class/spec you want, thatās not the issue.
The issue is that overnight, from WoD to legion, 1/3rād of hunter playerbase just vanished overnight and survival went from 30+% spec representation in hunters down to 4 or 5%, sometimes as low as 1 or 2. Even when it does the best damage, which, according to Nazatrix, is one of the only reasons why people play specs in the game (which I disagree with).
if Survival was such a fun and amazing and cool and great spec, how do you explain that vanish? Did they all just collectively go āhmmm survival is a rly cool spec but I wanna play other specs, despite having played with it since vanillaā.
Well, yeah, by name. But function wise it is completely different save for voidform rotation.
That goes for every single spec. And calling out other specs for ābeing 3 button mongo classesā obviously insinuates that somehow survival having more than 3 buttons is an epitomy of skill (it isnāt).
I think you may be a bit biased; I think you can tell apart a good warrior from a bad warrior very easily too. Or ret, or w/e. And you even point out yourself that itās not survivalās damage that makes them stand out, itās how they use their utility which really isnāt any different to how well a warrior predicts when to use intervene or banner or ret uses sanc and so on.
The only thing Iād say take a bit of skillcap are traps which I am still sometimes fumbling over, but I have played the spec literally for just 3 weeks and Iām already getting the hang of doing traps mid-air and whatnot. Itās not that hard, I think.
Outplay potential is also really scenario specific. I for example simply can not (0/0) lose to an arms warrior 1v1 if I just rotate my roots, defensives and traps and mobility. Would you now say that warrior is an extremely skillful class to play, because it has to work with such few tools in this scenario to try and beat me? Of course not. But in another scenario, he might be way stronger/better in it than I am. So saying that a spec has outplay potential if played well is a bit of an oxymoron to say because that outplay potential is very much context bound.
Survival was never about bursting people down in itās existence since the game launched. It was always a rot/setup spec. Despite this, it was incredibly popular throughout the gameās life, till legion.
In fact, whenever Survival has been the top dog DPS wise or utility wise, it hasnāt overtaken the popularity in the game from the other two specs, even if they did worse than it in pvp.
Thatās been the mentality of players since vanilla, itās nothing new. Do you think that people played survival hunter in 3s and 2s in BC arenas because it was an incredibly skillful spec lol?
No. They played it because you could wyvern sting the healers mana from behind a pillar and just kite till they ran out of mana. Same with SL/SL locks. People have -always- and will -always- gravitate toward greener pastures. Not all, but the phenomenon has always been there.
The only difference is that even underperforming specs back then were much more popular than melee survival has been in Legion/BFA/SL.
You and others are quoting and answering to me, so clearly Iām not talking to myself. I also understand what is being spoken about, I just disagree with what you try and pass off as being the case, when the objective truth from raider IO data and pvp participation numbers is really damning evidence, and I say it again:
A specās existance can not be justified if it, despite buffs, over time, does not gain any steam or popularity. Anybody can do world quests and random BGās with any spec, that doesnāt mean that the spec deserves to stay.
Looks at the camera
ā¦The issue is not that I donāt like the spec. The issue is that it simply has no place in the hunter class as a spec. Itās made all the 3 specs worse than they were pre-legion due to lack of identity or cramming ideas that do not fit into the specs, and also lack of interaction between different abilities.
Maybe if it was itās own class Iād be ok with it. But fundamentally, the spec should not exist.
āA lotā.
2% vs 33%.
1 Like
I really want to get off this topic but you keep bringing me back 
Realize for once that this is just your opinion and nothing more than that. The popularity of a class/spec is not the only and main measure of whether it is good or not. Learn it once. Youāve almost reached 1.6 and keep in mind that most average players get to 1.6 in a maximum of an hour without gear, with normal/decent gear to 1.8 in two hours. So this is a meaningless statement. This spec is definitely more complex to play than the others and with it you will need a lot more time and effort to reach a certain level and goal. With some other specs you will be able to achieve that much faster, and todayās players are more inclined to such specs. You will not see such a massive difference in the skill of players of other specs as with this one, thatās a fact. I saw something similar only with rogue players, but not as pronounced as with SV players.
I repeat for the fifth time, you have two decent ranged specs, choose and enjoy. Just forget about this spec and let us enjoy. Cheers 
ā¦ Thatās what Ion Hazzikostas said too- Only that, he never actually managed to argue for it.
Who is the game made for? The customers.
Whose interests does the game serve? The customers.
Is it better to serve the interests of a majority over minority? Yes.
Unless, of course, specs are made simply because gimmicks and uniqueness. Nobody disagrees that, as said, square wheel is very unique design indeed. It works too, not just very well.
I mean, this is the same business whose dev wanted people banned for saying corruption was a good system and that RNG upon RNG was great game design.
Historyās proven us right every single time.
I think you are just saying things out of spite/anger now because you donāt even believe this statement yourself. Even streamers like Anboni say that without their followes theyād easily take a month to get to just 1,8 because the gear disparity / rampant boosting and very inflated ratings due to lack of players is making games very hard to climb atm.
Now, granted, as I said I am not the best player but if even I can get to duelist without tryharding and playing some games every now and then and then pick up a fresh alt with 0 previous experience and get with sub-par gear to 1600 in 3 weeks, that doesnāt tell to me that the spec is very hard to play. Hard to master, I suppose? Absolutely. Iāll never be as good as Jellybeans, but that goes for any class.
Nobody will believe you if youāre telling them that people fresh out of leveling with 130 ilevel gear can reach 1,8 within 2 hours on average.
I donāt really understand why youāre so angry, you can just stop replying to my points if it bothers you that much? And youāve even said youāll leave the topic, soā¦Just do it?
I donāt think this is the case, as Iāve said. Granted, I have not played every single class and spec in the game, but I would on average say that the classes are more or less equal in terms of skill needed to play them, as the examples showcase. Survival hunters arenāt anything special.
People have been inclined to play with easy specs since forever, see my example about Burning crusade SL/SL locks and survival hunters.
Nah itās instead just your opinion. The funny thing is that survival is unironically one of the better 2v2 and 3v3 specs in the game atm, certainly in S+ tier in 2ās, and despite this itās not infesting the ladder, even when it has incredibly good / outright counters matchups vs arms warriors which are a far more popular spec atm in the ladder. So by very simple logic, survival hunters should be everywhere in 2v2ā¦Yet, they are not.
ā¦Oh, one of those players. I bet next you are going to say that Rogue and Mage are skillful classes to play, and the rest are much easier.
Cough S tier classes since BC.
Cough No shared DRās.
Cough Infinite resets.
Cough āLol just trinket x thingā
Nah, instead I will continue posting here and elsewhere the facts about Survivalās state, popularity, and other things. Iāll keep doing it here in the forums, in twitter and in Q&Aās, like everybody else, till we get it changed, like we got SP.
I never said that rogue is a difficult class to play but that there is quite a difference between bad, average, good and great rogue. You obviously think that this is the case with all classes, but mostly it is not or the difference is much smaller. I said the same for SV, that there is a big difference, with the fact that he is actually difficult to play. You say heās S+ tier? Yes if he is played by a great player. If he is played by a bad player then he is B or even C-D. A warrior is also S+ tier and if he is played by a bad player then he will be S or in the worst case A, because you simply cannot play a warrior so badly that he would go below that. This is an important difference when we talk about SV hunter and a warrior, and that is just one of many examples.
Now I expect you to write that I am wrong, that I am biased and that you do not agree with me, and here I answer you in advance that I do not agree with what you will write and that you have no idea what you are talking about. Anyway, feel free to keep crying, I wonāt bother you anymore, I promise 
ā¦As is with any class. I can tell a good warrior apart from a bad one immediately. As I can from a DK. Or a mage. Or a rogue.
It isnāt, as said. If for example rogue and mage were such hard skillcap classes like with SV hunter, weād see all of them equally little represented. But, alas, they are not.
SV isnāt hard to play- Nor is any other class in the game, I feel. They literally design the game for casual playerbase, itās no big surprise then that most of the classes are easy to get into.
This just comes off as a l2play issue, Iād say. Warriors are strong, yeah, but itās not like fire mages, frost dkās, rogues, affli locks or shadow priests are much behind.
I think youād probably improve as a player significantly if you stopped saying everybody else is fotm rolling noobs who win just because they play an OP class- It just comes off as coping. Itās not them, itās you. A hard pill to swallow, but thatās the only way you get better.
Yet, as I said, skillcap is entirely context bound. If for example a warrior faces off vs a survival hunter in a duel or even in 2v2, the survival hunter is far more stronger in that matchup. In fact, many of Survivalās toolkit outright counter warriors as it is. Net, steel trap, explosive trap and mobility + venthyr covenant.
Well, I donāt need to say you are wrong because the data says you are. Numbers are more important than opinions. Neither did I ever say that you canāt have an opinion on the spec. I even said myself that I like the spec. But I just acknowledge that as it is, survival is ruining both MM and BM by itās very existance since both of them are forced to try and offer that survival gameplay, but they canāt, so they have these abilities and lack of interactions in their toolkit as a result.
Itās not a surprise that the whole class went down the toilet (more or less) compared to WoD or even MoP after Legion. Survivalās the culprit and has to go, sorry not sorry.
As I said, you donāt need to reply if it upsets you.
1 Like
THIS. I wish people would consider this more often.
1 Like
I like Melee hunter. I donāt like the dumb little crossbow, but thatās not really something Iām gonna lose sleep over.
Sure Iām playing the least played spec, by the numbers. But Iām also having lots of fun. Bm is ok, but I havenāt really enjoyed it much since Legion, when I swapped to SV.
Make a 4th spec, and do whatever you want to do with that. Hell make it a shadow hunter, or Dark ranger, add all the dots and leave us Melee hunters alone.
I just want to enjoy my spec.
3 Likes
for me when you call surv as a melee itās already meme stereotype, i will not argue cuz itās out of point, current surv is harder overall in any scenario, just deal with it. word.
2 Likes
Itās not harder, it is just crapily designed.
Like joining a gun fight with a knife. Blizzard put SV in a scenario where they had a knife, because they cba to equip them with a gun. Yet idiots will still say its hard to murk with a knifeā¦ WELL DUHHH, blame the idiots that gave you a knife for a gun fight, aka blizz giving us an incomplete disaster fckfest that is Current SV.
1 Like
cuz casual player canāt handle the knife, casual player can debate for hours on forum, share walls of text and etc., he can handle words but not the knife. period
Nah fam, you lost out here. SV aint hard you absolute t-w-a-tā¦ It is just a mess of a spec. Get it right mate, we aint all got time for your boasty natureā¦ Oh so you can play SV, good for you. So can I and so can MAAAAAAAANY others. Donāt make it good or hard. Chill with yourself yeah.
As i said i will not argue, idk what could i lost ^^ I like current surv very much, more than current bm or mm, itās good for me, for sure. The diffrence of playstyle between PvE and PvP are huge with this spec, i may agree that surv is clunky in pve but pretty ok in PvP, and for me (i said it 43243242 days before) he is clunky in pve just cuz of damage, not because of āmeleeā. FFS you have another 2 specs to run with bow like a Legolas
2 Likes
In pve surv HAVE to be close to if not the best dps spec in the game before it beats out BM of MM for raid situations just because of ranged vs melee and how it is only 1 or 2 random spots in melee at best.
It is not damage that keeps it from being worse than MM or BM it is ranged vs melee spots in the raid.
If you do not understand this you have already failed how it works.
In quite a lot of BFA survival was doing better on logs than BM and MM and yet it was not being played in raids. (very few logs so unrealiable but still)
This is because mm and bm players are too addicted to braindead 2 buttons specs. SV hunter is played by people who donāt actually play mm or bm hunter because they are too boring and braindead.
You do not know that there is not a single dps spec in the game that is hard to play survival is not hard it is different.
You think it is hard because you do not know any better.
Being hard to play is anyway irrelevant you play it because you think it is hard sure go a head that is a very subjective thing.
Being hard or easy to play is irrelevant to performance though.
You want to play survival sure do it, but it is not harder to play then the old ranged survival if you think it is there is no way you played ranged survival at the time. (it was not really hard but neither is todayās survival)