Blizzard, come on, imagine what happens when you make the brawls ranked. Look at League Of Legends, the most toxic community after CS:GO. There are only 5 people on your team and you still barely can affect outcome of your games. Look at the circus which happens in Brawls these days. 8 (8!) people making random decisions, with no communication etc. And you made it even more diffucult implementing new rules for the Brawls. Deepwind gorge and no communication? Have you ever tried it? Imagine playing this game as a healer. YOU CAN’T CARRY as a healer. CAN’T. Doesn’t matter if you are the best healer in the world and can keep everyone alive, if your team doesn’t make right decisions, you are lost. If your team doesn’t contest a cart in Silvershard Mines, you can’t make them doing that. If they decided to go to contest only one cart instead of two, you lost. You can’t contest, you can’t kill. At least supports in League Of Legends can do good picks and engages, they can influence the game, but it is not possible in WoW. These Brawls are so random, in some games I can go AFK and still win, in some I can’t affect the result, we still lose. Every game is onesided, you don’t play any close games, it is always a complete lose or win. It is just a big clown show right now.
Healers are by far the most impactful role in BG´s though due to how powerful they are. You can also duoq with a good dps of your choice n have far more impact that way.
WoW is already quite toxic in terms of its PvP playerbase, it kinda always was but probably not as bad as league indeed. In league its quite hard to “1v9” indeed but if you consistantly play well every game you will infact climb so its more about consistancy than it is about having the occasional 30-0 game, thats how the rating system should work afterall. Its also worth stating, alot of the people who go 30-0 n still lose games tends to oversestimate their own impact on the game due to lack of gameknowlege which gives the impression of “solo carrying” because they purely look at the scoreboard. People has this mentality in for example solo shuffle aswell, “well i dident die so i deserve rating!” while doing nothing to help prevent the actual kill target from dying.
I think Blitz will be a great addition, more people in the playerbase enjoys BG´s than arena n since the arena playerbase cant attract new players nor maintain its existing playerbase we need alternatives to keep PvP alive in WoW. Refocusing n trying a different approach is exactly what the game needs at this point.
And why do you care?
By your words I think you wouldn’t even touch it but heyyyyy guys I don’t like it so you too should’t like it.
People been asking for soloque since idk 10+ or more years. Solo shuffle was a big fail (really? Look at the other private servers that implemented 2s and 3s solo que and you big company still fail to understand).
Tell me how do I impact the game in Arathi? Your whole team went to the lumber mill and no one went to the blacksmith. What is your plan? If you go alone to the blacksmith, you can’t kill even one player (except the situation where there is an arms warrior and you are a discpline priest). So you will probably die when your CDs are gone or your mana is empty. Imagine you went to help your teammates to the lumber mill. You can stay there healing your teammates, and both sides can’t get any advantage. So the lumber mill will stay neutral while the opposite team takes 3 bases.
You can apply this logic to almost every BG except WSG and similar ones.
Yes I agree if both team are even, the team with a better healer wins. But imagine if your teammates are clueless, what are you going to do?
I am not sure why gear even matters in a match that is supposed to be 100% even.
if the enemy can take 3 bases, it means they are missing players at the LM fight so it shouldnt stay neutral.
i cant answer such a broad question in a simple manner, its PvP n not a raid encounter with static mechanics.
Sometimes the teams/comps are just objectively worse, sometimes the players are straight up better just like in every form of PvP.
Ive only played blitz solo so far n i only play dps n i´ve still felt like ive been able to have a quite significant impact on the outcome of the game. Healers objectively has like 3-4x more impact on a game than a dps does even if the dps does good damage.
Some games are unwinnable n i´ve had several lobbies where im unironically convinced my whole team are actual bots running on the same poorly designed script. If you keep performing above the league you´re in you´re going to keep climbing sooner or later, no one is going to have a 100% winrate.
It’s there to farm progress for the Mystic Washing Machin…sorry, The Great Vaut and nothing else. (oh and the two weekly quests!) I get my first daily win and bail out.
Could you tell me why I win more BGs as retri than holy? Even when I am a main healer player and have no exp and idea playing as DPS on arenas i.e. The answer is easy: you can’t contest the bases as healer. Why? Because you can’t kill anyone solo. You can only folow your team. Even when it is a flag BG like WSG, if your dps don’t do any damage, you will get oom faster than the enemy healer and lose. 2 good dps in your team can solo the enemy healer or a dps player. Yes, the healers are strong, sometimes you need 4-5 player to kill a good healer. But it makes no sense in terms of BGs with bases. If your DPS don’t do damage or don’t contest any objectives, you can’t win. And your winrate will stay at 50% because you can’t actually carry your games with all your potential. As I said before, try to play as healer in Deepwind gorge, when you have no information where your help is needed, when your DPS go to the market and ignore all other bases. Pure chaos. And winning or losing there is only a matter of luck. Nothing else. As dps you can kill 2 people solo and capture the base, which can flip the game.
And the situation which you described. Both 2 healers from both teams are present on LM. Noone wins the fight. It stays neutral. And you are missing 1-2 dps (which happens a lot). Your team still can’t get 3 bases. What would you do? You can’t heal any stronger or give CC any better to capture LM. If you rotate to somewhere else, you will lose LM and game pace, because you have to travel.
Also the specs are really important and you can’t make drafts to ban or pick. If the enemy team gets 2-3 boomkins (even 1 sometimes), you will lose, because they have more damage. How can you make a ranked mode if the maps and classes are not balanced according to the BGs conditions?
You as a healer have the option of duoqing with a dps of your choice so you can easily get a top tier damage dealer to que with you n that solves all your problems.
A good healer can easily survive 4 good dps players for an absurd amont of time in BG´s, no ones trying to kill healers anymore for that reason, you try to CC them to kill the actual mortal specs or hope the healer ooms. You can play around this fact by locking down 3-4 enemy dps players n prevent them from capping by just being annoying at one of their bases, thats another option you´ve got.
Chances are you´re overestimating your impact on the game if you think you´re gonna be stuck at 50% winrate in ratings below your capabilities.
Not a single PvP mode is “balanced” n never has been, the difference in WoW PvP compared to real PvP games such as say league of legends is that the top tier champions in league are generally not absurdly much stronger than the weakest, meanwhile in WoW you can take the worlds best player on the games weakest spec against an average rival player on the games strongest spec and the rival is likely going to win.
No rating is relevant in wow either way, just play the gamemodes you have fun with. WoW has never been a “competitive” game in that sense, far too much variation for any of it to matter.
So, to win the games you actually need to Q in a duo with someone? Was not it suppossed to be a solo game mode?
You overestimate the power of healers. Don’t you forget that the whole design was for 3 v 3 arenas and healers sometimes can’t even survive two players. But they are still strong, agreed. And that’s why they need to leave only one healer per group in Brawls. Because it takes too long to wait for 2. And it becomes extremely boring and long when you face 2 healers at the same time in a teamfight.
That was a good point. You are gonna make ranked brawls with 8 random classes without a draft system? Even in League you can ban your counterpick. Imagine what happens when you see 3 boomkins on the enemy team. Winnable? Yes. But not everytime.
The thing is, it is not fun anymore. Random and epic BGs are flooded with premades (and Blizzard doesn’t fix that), Brawls have different rules (which I don’t find fun) and the most important part: you need to wait for 15-20 minutes to play 10 minutes one sided game where nothing affects the game except Luck. They balanced PVP too long around only one game mode, which is 3 v 3 arena, apparently being played by 100 people and their alts around the world, because these days it is impossible to find a good dedicated team which wants to play together and improve.
I like the game, or it is better to say I used to like it. But it becomes worse every year and Blizzard doesn’t care about it, because no one listens to community anymore.
I have just done with WSG playing as holy pala. I ended with 74 (8 millions overhealing) million healing, which is more than our priest’s healing by 30 million, which is more than the enemy team’s shaman healing by 40. And only 24% of this healing was directed to me. I still lost it. So tell me how do I carry my games as healer? The problems is it will be supposed to be a ranked mode, but actually it is a RANDOM BG.
I couldn’t heal my flag carrier because he was constantly running away from me even though I could keep him at 80% easily.
I couldn’t heal my flag carrier later because instead of going to our base, he was in the field fighting with random people, until he got around 15 stacks, which is not possible to heal anymore. Ah I forgot to mention that they had a druid (possibly a guardian) which was carrying the flag, and we had a bunch of melees. Ranked games you said?
I still think that a bad healer makes the game worse. But what I believe is that a bad DPS makes it unplayable. You can’t make your dps playing the game instead of fighting and doing random things, and when you heal them you just help them doing it. Most of the times it is enough to have a really good dps or a flag carrier in your team to win the game. But it could also be opposite.
No, you dont need to duoq with anyone. just having enough individual impact is going to make a big difference. Yes healers are “balanced” around 3v3 healing, the difference is that theres dampening in 3v3 and no one is dying currently in 3v3 intill deep dampening or ooming. Without dampening arenas would never end in the current state the game is in which is why healers make people immortal in bgs, which im fine with. If healers arent having fun they stop queing n suddenly no one gets to play.
We cant have a draft system in WoW PvP because the playerbase is way too small to make that functional. Que times are already awful. Ive suggested for shuffle to enforce 2 casters, 2 melees and 2 healers per lobby to reduce the amont of absurdly onesided lobbies in the game to improve game quality, something like that could be implemented for blitz too technically but beyond that we certainly cant have a draft system.
Its also worth noting that a big part of the playerbase are fotm rerollers, while i dont fall into that category myself n instead end up unsubbing when the classes i enjoy are terrible i dont blame people for fotm rerolling, the power difference between even an A tier and S tier is like 40% raw statstick performance.
Yes i agree the game becomes worse every year, however i have a different perspective on why that is. The problems PvP is facing is fundamentally a problem with the community n i cant even think of a way for blizzard to fix it. Everytime they try to implement some form of change people start screetching like banshees.
We can look at shuffle as a reference, Season 1 shuffle was hugely popular and by every metric a smashing success, now i dident love the format myself but overall i still quite enjoyed it. Season 2 the 3v3 playerbase screamed on twitter intill blizzard nerfed conquest gains n hardcapped mmr for months which resaulted in one of the lowest participations we´ve ever seen in PvP history. We have a very loud minority dictating a majority of the changes made to the game at the expense of the majority.
The mistake from the start was giving the playerbase agency with LFG which turned into a dumpsterfire that somehow took almost two decades before anyone decided to add alternatives, the moment those alternatives appeared 3s ended up on lifesupport.
The same applies to BG´s with the premade exploiting, they keep claiming they love playing against other premades n thats why they do it yet just like with the twinks back in the day who claimed to love playing against other twinks, if they were exclusively fighting other premades they´d stop queing within a week. We saw this when twinks got their own bracket n it died completely in 1-2 weeks.
At this point im inclined to say screw arena, refocus the entire PvP around blitz n hope its successful, balance everything around BG blitz. we´re bleeding players as is, majority of the people enjoying PvP enjoys BG´s. Start catering to the majority n maybe we can get more people into PvP again as opposed to fewer n fewer each season.
They will never do something like this, because they don’t listen and don’t care. Because the pvp playerbase is 10 times less than the mythic+ playerbase. But why? Because no one wants to play the pvp in this game, because it is terrible. And gets worse.
The game is messy, so the community will be. If you type something in the BG chat you will get no answer, even in League you can get one. Toxic? Yes. But still.
So Blizzard shouldn’t listen to them probably? 100 guys playing 3 v 3 versus a big community? Again players fault?
There is no hope. Even this topic gets no replies except yours and mine. No one cares.
The 100 people playing 3v3 and are exessively passionate about it and a very loud minority, most people are nowhere near that passionate about the game as a whole, if my prefered classes/specs are unplayable im not making 300 posts about it n spam blizzard on twitter, ill simply unsub n will be gone for anywhere between 3 months to 3 years.
I believe most casuals has that mentality, “im not having fun, im gonna go do something that is fun” where as the small minority who has nowhere else to go will be the loud minority screaming for change, the problem is that their perfect world consists of a format where they can run the same S tier premade they´ve played for the last 12 years against some random LFG team by removing shuffle n all other solo content in favor of funneling people back into 3v3 by force.
So in this case blizzard has a silent majority who simply unsubs or plays other content, and an extremely loud minority who pretends to represent “the playerbase”.
Its kinda the same deal with premades, thats a fairly recent problem that appeared in massive numbers in DF, in the past premades certainly exist but not on this scale, its more likely to encounter a premade than not at this point if you que up. Why is this suddenly a problem when BG´s has existed for two decades without this problem?
we have played different games. definetly.
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