Re-rolling or Quitting

[Necrokid-ragnaros]

These are the two options right in front of me now. I’m maining DK since BFA (so around 4 years by now) and I noticed a pattern regarding the balancing/positioning of DK’s in both PvE and PvP.

PvE

I think DKs were always viable in PvE, so I don’t see the point of throwing a big tantrum here. If I would have to say one thing, it’s that usually DKs require longer build ups and better positioning/coordination than most of the other classes. This is a negative in my eyes, as this makes DKs kind of a bad experience in M+ pugs and can be frustrating. The positive of it, if you go with premades and you have time to build your wounds (as an UH) and the tank actually cares abour your DnD, you gonna pump out pretty high dps. Obviously Frost doesn’t require that much of a build up, but I don’t like how Frost is only good during Pillars and whenever you are out of it, you jump back a tier or two. (Also hate BoS build)

PvP

This is where the real problem begins. PvP tuning in general is a pretty hard task, but I think Blizzard is just also horrible in it. They’re either biased towards specific classes/specs or just complete clowns. DK is one of the most inconsistently balanced class from the entire roster, and this isn’t subjective, there are a lot of data aswell,such as participation rate/class presence etc. There are entire seasons where DK is utter trash and it takes a few months to get it back to a decent spot or actual good spot, then it gets nerfed to the ground again. Take a look at the nerfs that is coming with this reset. Do you think this nerf towards DKs are actually justifiable? I will agree that it was too strong against casters, so some nerfs were needed, but this is just ridiculous. They are nerfing our entire ACTIVE sustain kit/defensives because of 2 passive joke talent. WotN isn’t even a dmg reduction it counts as dmg absorb therefor it plays into our DS, yet DS gets nerfed into the ground. The random mini ams pops (spellwarding) were the issue against casters not our actually active AMS. They are also forgetting that there are classes with MS effect and also arena healing reduc, I cannot wait to sacrifice my dmg output to heal 3% of my health with DS.
Not to mention that even with the current state of the DK, it’s not even close to be a top contender regarding dmg or survivalbility. There are much better and stronger classes right now that needs tuning. I will give you a few Example:

DH
being a 4 button class yet massively out dmging most of the specs both in PvE and PvP, flying around with 150 to 200k The Hunts. Their survivalbility is also massive and their heals are mostly passive and they are not sacrificing anything really. But heey!!! -10% nerf on The Hunt!! What an absolute joke.

Warlocks
Much better survivability and even movement at this point than DKs, even after the slight nerfs, its still a monster.

Fury
Again, insane amount of selfhealing with sacrificing basically nothing.

Rogues
Rouges were always strong Dmg wise, nothing too suprising there, but what is suprising is their heals. Are you actually kidding me rn blizzard?

And I could go on and on. Obviously I don’t want any of the classes/specs to be completely gutted, they all should be viable with some weaknesess and some strenghts, but cmon man.

So what do you guys think, which class should I choose to reroll to?

[Biizar-silvermoon]

I have played frost since early BFA mostly PvE and what you say is completely true,
the class feels worse than ever.

the DnD oblit playstyle just doesn’t fit in the game at all. Its such a slow, clunky, unreliable, playstyle compared to other classes. It takes too long to set up and it punishes movement and small mistakes way to much.

Breath is just as bad especially in pugs. Nobody likes it why is it still in the game? we have been complaining about breath for years, and they refuse to change it, why do we have to micro manage our strongest aoe abilities like remorseless winter? while other classes just press a button and do massive dmg like: eyebeam, fists of fury, divine storm, primordial wave, whirlwind, and whatever else.

Imo frost needs a major redesign to get it more in line with more modern class design.

[Raigeky-grim-batol]

Sad.
DK is legacy and symbol of WoW.
Dk is not some new not important class “dractyr” to fck around with it.
Dk need to be in good standing in every aspect of play.

[Vintner-silvermoon]

Are you satisfied by the gameplay itself? The button weaving.
Or the question would be, does making big DPS make your member harder?
Seems like it’s all about topping the charts in this age. If all classes would be equally tuned then it would be boring, every class excels at a niche , or if it’s not, then it should be.
Then again, gameplay of every class is revolved around that, pressing buttons in such a fashion that you are good at your job, and pressing random buttons or not following patterns, or a certain rotation means of your lack of understanding of how it works.
How would you make it satisfying then?
Numbers also don’t matter if you fail at mechanics, that’s where the niche of classses shine, the utility like DK Death Grip, and more where you can benefit your allies.

[Zugmeoff-ravencrest]

Honestly, the more I read DK posts on forums, the more I think the problem isn’t that DKs are weak now, it’s the other melee they compare themselves too constantly are too strong.

If fury/rogue/DH etc was nerfed, I don’t think DK would nearly have as many survival problems with them (although, that might nerf DKs in arena indirectly because of DKs acting as a really powerful offensive support for overtuned melee)

They need a redesign though, doesn’t even feel fun to play a DK even prenerf

[Othila-hellfire]

I agree with you, Blizz needs to decide whether giving pure dps huge self sustain or not. If they remove it, then dk is in a really good spot right now, but if they keep it then we’re simply a less efficient alternative.
Also, I’d like for hybrids a different damage profile: overall the same damage but less bursty, so that they have less kill potential in pvp to compensate utility and self sustain, without interfering with PVE metrics.

[Zugmeoff-ravencrest]

Honestly, where I’d put DKs ideally:

Have the role as an offensive support that has high pressure but not amazing knockout potential. An offensive midfielder rather than a striker. Slots into comps in which the other member has really high sustain and overwhelms or sets up kills for very burst melee. Have frost a bit more bursty (but still largely sustain damage profile, like a 60:40 ratio rather than 50:50 ratio) but melee range, and UH with more ranged damage dealing through the dots/necromantic magic theme etc.

I think toning down fury self-heals is a good start, tuning the rogue self heals, removing fodder to the flame from DH, and maybe taking a look at ferals as well.

Problem with balancing hybrid self-sustain atm is how powerful % health-based stuff is because of the health buff, which is why rets are dreadful, and WoG crit for like 10% of their health, using their damage resource to do so.