I main brewmaster, it’s my favourite class overall.
I’ve played every dps class but to just put it out there, I’m awful at dps, I’ve never been able to get a feel for it, however the one dps I’ve always wanted to get good at is rogue.
I’ve levelled one to 60 and have unrated pvp gear, but I just want to know, which spec is recommended for a beginner??
I know sub is considered the hardest, should I stick with that and persevere, or stick with assassin which I have a better understanding of?
your gear is really low, that makes it hard. you also don’t want to be using adaptation, get a medallion.
anyway, probably the 2 most important things that you are most likely not doing as a beginner are the following:
as a sub rogue, there is no “fighting”. you are either bursting, or you are running away and trying to get back into stealth. only if you are getting attacked and can’t get away do you stay in to fight, and even then you have cooldowns that help you with that. this is because you die very easily if people hit you, your damage from stealth is increased massively because of the master assassin legendary (make that one by the way) and being invisible makes it a lot harder for other people to mess up your plans.
do damage with stuns. chain stuns with no gaps between them to prevent opponents from doing anything. this locks them down and makes them a lot easier to kill. if when the lockdown is over you don’t think they’re going to die, just run away. think hit and run.
assa is a lot more “standard” in its playstyle. you mainly play around your kidney shot and try to do damage with that. it’ll be more like your monk most likely.
My advice is watch some other sub rogue /mage videos on YouTube. Watch some high rank players and dont expect to be suddenly god mode but pay close attention to there choices when to leave, also get a grasp of when or WHY they leave , biggest mistake most make is commitment to “a few more gcds” or trying to push though some CDS that really - you already got plenty on your go
As a rogue you kinda learn to be selfish, in a standard rogue mage 2V2 your mage can take WAY more punishment than you and you have to learn to trust he can survive some stuff while you wait for DRs on stuns to be down
Final note. If your not using one I highly recommend getting a diminishing returns add on. You will thank me later because stuns are basically a resource to a kill attempt and signal when you can really do damage or nay
The class is actually pretty hard by comparison to some other classes I’ve played for a new player dps wise, at least initially it is because you lack some awareness of how you can use some skills or how to make a strong opener (sap heal/kidney kill target is not the only play and is defo not the optimal is a lot of set ups you can play as sub)
To be honest. If you haven’t started gearing yet I would start with going outlaw.
Outlaw is currently the best rogue PVE specc by far. It is also one of the easier speccs to play.
Outlaw is actually better in PvP than what people give it credit for.
I am still only playing Sub, but that is mainly because I haven’t gotten a 226 or even a 220 one-handed sword/axe/mace yet. I don’t know if it is worth dropping 16 ilvls on your MH weapon and go outlaw… I don’t think so.
Therefore, just go outlaw now and you won’t be in the position I am in xD
… but also, if you’re mainly concerned about PvP then maybe stick to sub, learning it and gearing it is very rewarding. I am not a big fan of arena, but I very much enjoy rated BGs and sub is incredibly fun in rBGs
If you are planning to do more PVE than PvP then try outlaw.
I dont wanna sound elitist saying this but I actually think learning sub is better in the long run on rogue as a starting spec, mostly because you will by default end up bothering to learn to use focus target macros and a grasp on some good “basics” that you can learn on any spec but are often less incentivised to bother because you can “get away without” even if it will improve your game
I know for a fact I could just swap to assassin and pick it up in a day, or outlaw , because I did. I think it would be harder to go the other way around from them to sub and feel like learning a new class again
Agree if it is mainly PvP you have in mind. Not sure about assassin being that easy to pick up in PVE though. It is a lot like an aff warlock in melee range, which I’d say may be much harder for some players than sub where you don’t have to switch targets as frequently.
That depends on the player man, my friend can only play assassin even now because he finds sub cool downs way harder to work out , where as I have always kept some degree of dedication to sub even if I’m playing another spec in some content (let’s be real bfa I’d never get m+ invites if I showed up rocking sub unless I knew them personally) .
The case I was making thought is playing assassin for a while and outlaw when I decided to try them i realized I’d rarely if ever use some lessons learned like focus kidney/cheap which even in m+ can be really clutch to carrying team sometimes by cheesing some mechanics. On sub I just kinda do this naturally without thinking at this point , but I felt like if I had learned assa/outlaw first i probably would of been ignorant to how valuable this could be to get used to just because you can play both pretty fine without and ‘get by’
Yeah that’s what I said, it depends on the player. Regarding BFA I don’t know… =P I hit keystone master with pugs at the end of the season only playing sub.
Also, I completely agree with you that sub is very punishing if you don’t know how to play it, whereas you can ‘get by’ with the other two speccs by just spamming buttons.
@Twoshanks if you need some sub rogue tips i can write down a little mini dps guide that will take you relatively far, because lets be honest. The rogue who is writing the wowhead guides is not a very good player apart from perhaps raiding where he is okay.
I obviously did not mean a PvP guide here… there are rogues much better than me on that topic here. So for M+ and raiding here we go:
Talents.
1st row: weapon master for raiding, premediation for mythic+
2ns row*: Shadow focus for raiding and nightstalker for mythic+
If you have below maybe 12% haste then Shadow focus is probably better in M+ too. Basically, the higher your haste is, the more reason to go for nightstalker.
3rd: Deeper stratagem
4th: option (I use cheat death… very useful in higher keys where you can get 1shot if you slip up or even just lag a bit.
5th: shot in the dark. Maybe go for prey on the weak if you have the rushed setups conduits.
6th. enveloping shadows
7th master of shadows.
Legendary: Finality for raiding and Mark of Master Assassin for M+. Finality may better than MA for some affixes where it is harder to drop combat, or where tank are more tempted to chain pull.
Conduits:
Potency: 1) Planned Exeution and 2) deeper daggers for Mythic + or 2) deeper daggers, stilletto or perforated veins for raids… I am actually unsure about 2nd raid potency conduit. Most important endurance conduit is Recuperator. Rushed setups (finesse) is good if you dont have shot in the dark.
Here are some overall tips:
READ UP ON YOU PASSIVES. Understanding your passives is very important.
maintain SnD (slice and dice), this is much easier with premed.
Use tricks of the trade on every pull if it is off cool down, it means you dont have to wait for aggro.
If you are at 4 combo points or more (in shadow dance), or 5 combo points outside of shadow dance, spend your combo points. The last thing you want to do is missing out on combo points. E.g. if you have 4 combo points and you shadowstrike you will hit 6 combo points. However, it is very likely you will miss 1 combo points that you would have generated from shadow techniques… but since we are capped on CP, it is wasted.
Make good use of shadow technique, this is especially try if you are Kyrian and play echoing reprimand.
Outside of shadow dance your dmg is low, dont just spam backstab. You want to have 85+ energy when you enter shadow dance again, in that case make sure you have that energy by just auto attacking for a while. Entering shadow dance with low energy is very punishing.
If you use MA, use it smart. You want that 100% crit buff to give you as much value as possible. This includes popping symbols of death and even shadow blades the split second before you leave stealth.
Generally, use your cool downs as often as you can, dont save CDs for a particular fight if you can use them early on previous packs and still get it for that fight where you need it. Try planning around the packs, when you can use what cool down and when it normally comes back.
Remembering raid/dungeon mechanics is very important. Popping CDs like shadowdance in a situation where you suddenly have to run away is extremely punishing. As a sub rogue, you have to make the most of your CDs. All your dmg comes from within shadow dance.
When there are 4 or more targets you AoE by using Shuriken>blackpowder>shuriken>blackpowder, etc. My Shuriken storm is bound to Q and Blackpowder to E inside mythic+, because they are two abilities you will spam alot.
In AoE you want to use shadow dance, because it increases your dps significantly (especially if you have night stalker) and because of deepening shadows. Basically you get Shadow dance back very fast when you AOE, so its a dps waste not to you use it.
Opening with MA on large packs often mean either Shadowstrike (to get your SnD) into your AoE rotation or just start with the AoE rotation where it particularly good if you can open with a 5-6 combo point Black powder into a shuriken storm, rather than the reverse.
If you use MA and you want to open with AOE, it is often good too be patient and wait until the tank has gathered the trash mobs in range for your abilities.
when you are outside of shadow dance and there are 3 targets, you don’t use black powder, but you use shuriken storm instead of backstab.
use symbols of death before pull to make us of MA. Also try to synch your symbols of death with shadow dance as much as u can.
get a good feeling for how deepening shadows works, It will help you play your shadow dances better.
On 2 or 3 target cleave fights, maintain rupture on all targets. Don’t use rupture if the target dies before it expires. I use rupture little in M+, but when I do I do it on chunky targets where I am not prioritizing my damage.
Opening from Stealth is where you get your burst windows, especially if you use MA. Do not waste your combo points on SnD here until your burst is over (this is why premed. is nice.
other:
sim your character in raidbots. Stat priority change depending on legendary and whether you are doing mythic+ or raiding. I have two different sets of gear for M+ and raiding (I manipulate most of my stats with rings and necklaces).
know the boss fights so you can plan your CDs
get a feeling for the duration of pack fights in a dungeon so you can plan your CDs.
I know some of the tips are a bit all over the place, and I probably forgot some stuff too, but this is probably a good start
