Rearranging and Removing Portals

So not the same at all, then.

Civ2 is about expanding rapidly. It’s a very militaristic game with an insane early game rush. Cities are 1 tile, the whole board uses square tiles, and all your units can occupy one tile. Civ2 is also heavily RNG based.

Civ6 is not about expansion at all, although expansion is one way of playing it. It’s not particularly militaristic, and in fact being too expansionist gets you into trouble. The entire board is hexagonal, cities occupy many tiles each, and only 1 unit can be on each tile at the same time. The RNG is toned far, far down.

The only thing they have in common is the theme, name, and that they’re turn-based strategy games. Civ6 and Age of Wonders 3 have far more in common than Civ6 and Civ2 do, but that’s okay because Civ2 doesn’t have a monthly subscription that I’ve been paying into in order for Civ6 to replace Civ2 such that Civ2 is no longer playable.

We’ll see.

Ultimately I believe that classic WoW appeals to a different audience than the live game, so I’m sure some people will say they don’t want to play it and lots of people who don’t want to play the live game will wanna play that, and that’s part of what gets me. Why does WoW refuse to appeal to the game WoW used to appeal to? I’m not asking it to be the same, I’m just asking for Blizzard to recognise that they made a progression based MMORPG, and that if they wanna make something else entirely, then they should do so instead of corrupting WoW’s purpose.

or… in the end. after 14 years a person maybe doesnt like same the thing.
Or like it but in a different way.
The interesting thing is that many of us continue to play despite their (our) continue moaning. It’s a love and hate relationship. I dont like the current state of the game, but i hate the continue moaning about evcerything.
Portals are a good example: it was an useless and not intelligent choice from Blizz. But i can live with the new portal disposition. My game experience will be the same.

Collections/Transmog etc. are part of Wow, in the same way that Professions or Raids or Pvp are. A person that enjoys spending their time on Collections and Transmog by definition likes Wow.

It is, frankly, childish to say that because somebody doesn’t enjoy the same activities as you within they game they somehow don’t like the game itself.

You don’t even have to understand why somehow likes different aspects of the game to have the basic decency to respect it - I personally don’t understand why people enjoy running the same instances again and again just with beefed up numbers, but I respect that they enjoy the game for it and certainly don’'t think any less of them for it.

The same could be said for any number of different aspects of the game.

Edit: Also Civ 6 is definitely about rapid expansion, Civ 5 would have been a better example as playing tall was far more viable.

5 Likes

I was about to reply to that and how insulting that statement was, but then I dropped…
“Play my game or be an idiot” doesn’t deserve a reply, thanks for replying to this for me :smiley:

1 Like

true. (15 chars)

1 Like

They are? Wish someone would’ve told Blizzard in the first 12 years of this game’s existence that it was a core feature of WoW.

Collections are a core feature in the same way pet battles are.

I didn’t say that; they did. This whole thread is about collectors complaining about how much they hate modern WoW and are gonna quit because they’re angry that Blizzard is trying to nudge them away from playing the content and systems from previous expansions and trying to get them to play the current ones.

I completely understand if people wanna collect things, but they’re not just collecting things; they’re collecting old things, specifically. They have no interest in collecting BfA things. Doesn’t that make you stop and think for a second about what could’ve caused this?

Are you suggesting I’m disrespecting people by agreeing with Blizzard that there are too many portals?

Roflmao, get over yourself. You’re the first person in this thread I actually think deserves disrespect at this point. What the hell.

No. Everyone does not.

4 Likes

There is a whole tab on achievements about collection, it’s not because you don’t like it that it doesn’t exist or it has to be removed from the game.
You don’t like it just ignore it.

2 Likes

I never said they were a core feature. Honestly, neither are professions or, really, PvP at this point. However, Wow is not a linear game, it is by design an open world - There is zero onus to enjoy it for it’s “core” features.

And legacy runs, though the collections menu didn’t exist at the time, have been in the game for many years. People have run ICC for literally years at a time in order to obtain Invincible. People ran the Black Temple before that for the Warglaives of Azzinoth.

The collections tab is a glorified bank - It added, with the exception of transmog, nothing to the game that wasn’t already there.

Respecting people and respecting peoples opinions/beliefs are entirely different things. You can not respect someone and yet respect their right to an opinion. Learn some basic reading comprehension.

Frankly, the biggest take away from this thread IMO is that the ability to add thread-specific blacklists is an ability sorely needed.

2 Likes

Collections came in pre patch to wotlk over 13 years ago .
Mog came in 8 years ago its been in the game longer then the game had without it .
No idea why you think WoW went 12 years without it .
If they didnt valus collectors why put in so many rewards ie pets/mog/mounts/titles for them it is current content for them always .
Your views iam sorry to say are blinkered you dont agree with anyone and then lash into them its wrong.

5 Likes

I agreed with everything up to this :slight_smile:

I would really like to see Blizz put some better AI on general quest mobs; take some cues from Island AI, maybe less jumpy and inclined to run away, but make them actually use different skills and be threatening. They should have more than just autoattack, and if I neither interrupt, knockback, nor heal myself, I should probably be killed. (We have multi-speccing, there is no excuse for “I’m a healer and I can’t kill things”.)

At the same time, I don’t want to spend any longer levelling, so I’d prefer if all “kill or collect drops” type quests got a significant reduction in the number of things that need to die. Or increase quest reward experience such that only half as many quests are needed (but I for one was happy with the pace 1-90 when I did it recently.)

it also puzzles me that Blizzard act as if the game wasn’t made for massive alting. In 8.1.5 they are giving us 50 slots on the same realm.
They have also added 8 allied races since the beginning of Legion and even give achievements for levelling from scrap.

1 Like

I’d just like to apologize on behalf of all gamers for the way you’ve been treated, it’s really inappropriate and we’re all sorry. #DevsAreHeroes #Blizzard4Lyfe #AmITheOnlyOneEnjoyingBFA

You are right, we are all sorry. Sorry the devs are blind and deaf and want to decide how we spent our time in-game.

2 Likes

I quite agree about keeping the Dalaran portal rooms as they are. All 3 of them.
When more space is needed, I’m sure the mages can sort it out. After all portals is a field for the arcane, and their capital is Dalaran. To revoke this task from them, I’m sure they’re not happy about it!

Boralus does not have full range of capital city portals. It has portals to Stormwind, Ironforge and Exodar (and broken Silithus). What about Dalaran NR and BI? They were the capitals of WLK and Legion. Pandaria doesn’t really have a capital, but it has a hub. Same with WoD (but really… solo garrisons and Warspear).

Also the Darkshore and Arathi portals are only up at certain times during the Warfront cycle. Fair enough they’re more up than not. They’re still not always reliable. And that even though the Warfront itself happens in a dungeon phase.

I guess we’ve gotten too much bag space now? Since we’re supposed to get all those porting items and keep them in our bags to carry around in order to teleport here and there… Equippable items where we have to wait for the 30 sec cool down before we can use the teleport. Also very nice for when you travel around collecting items from dungeons and raids where you can’t mount up to vendor as you go.

Nope. I completely understand people being upset by removed portals.

5 Likes

The logic of removing portals and saying it’s make the world smaller than it is. The logic of killing a boss or anything else unique more than once?
All the crazy spawns from nowhere? The list of illogical is as long as infinity.

Sometimes I like spending time on old stuff I didn’t finished or just want to relive. I don’t want to relive the vanilla experience of getting from point a to b in 30 min playtime. If i wanted that I jump on a horse or a turtle (whom got the same speed as a horse). Shape up blizzard!

1 Like

I guess they won’t step back from the portal removal.

It is probably their way to tell us that they know better how this game should be and should be played.

It probably also mean that it is no use to whine about anything about the game because they would never do anything about it.

Deal with it, it’s their way or the highway.

Is that so?

Let us look at this logically then.

One principle of MMORPG design – and by extension WoW’s design – is that rewards are yielded appropriate to the time and effort invested.

This design principle is typically expressed in this manner:

Time + Effort = Reward

So what are some examples of that in WoW?

A World Quest to kill an Elite mob will yield a greater reward than a similar World Quest to kill a non-Elite mob.
That is because the effort needed to kill an Elite mob is greater, so the reward is appropriately higher.

If you play with Warmode on you get +x% extra rewards and experience. Why? Because the time and effort spent having to fend off enemy players in order to complete various quests is higher than not having to fend off enemy players.

This is the design principle that Blizzard balances rewards around in the game.

So how does this apply to portals?

Well, if you can complete an old instance without much effort or time spent, but still acquire a lot of gold and other useful items, then the balance of time + effort = reward is out of whack.

In the past Blizzard did a major pass on old content, effectively reducing the amount of gold and trash loot it yielded, because farming old content had become the predominant way of getting rich in the game. So Blizzard had to nerf the value of running old content, because otherwise it invalidated the time and effort spent on doing any of the current-expansion content.

The underlying problem is that the rewards in an instance like Karazhan are balanced around the effort it requires to complete the instance – which is trivial if you’re a max-level player – and the time it takes to run through the instance AND the time it takes to travel to the instance.
But if you have a portal right in front of Karazhan, then the time investment becomes as trivial as the effort required, meaning that you’re getting an overproportioned amount of rewards relative to the time and effort invested.

Let’s take a World Quest in Stormsong Valley, one of those where you have to kill a named mob up in the snowy mountains who’s trying to steal the precious Azerite.
That World Quest can reward upwards of 100g or 350 Azerite Power. Yet the effort required to kill 1 mob is trivial, easy and quickly done. So how can this World Quest be so rewarding? Well the answer is that the reward accounts for the travel time to get there in the first place. It takes several minutes from the nearest flight point and to the top of those mountains – and it is that time investment the reward is balanced around.

So returning to the design principle of Time + Effort = Reward, then this is really difficult to apply to old content.
The faster means of travel players get (flying, portals, etc.) and the more trivial the content gets (out-level, out-gear, etc.) the more rewarding the old content becomes. You simply get more bang for the buck, so to speak.
But that undermines all the current-expansion content where the time investment and effort required to complete anything is usually much higher.
That forces Blizzard to balance the rewards for completing old content relative to current-expansion content. And there are two ways of doing this. You can either nerf the rewards outright (which they have done once in the past already), or you can increase the time and effort required, so it corresponds better to the rewards given.

So from a logical perspective, if we say the guiding design principle for gaining Honor ranks or PvP rating or Mythic mode raid kills is that Time + Effort = Reward, then logically that same design principle should hold true to all other content as well – including old dungeons and raids. The rewards should correspond to the time and effort invested.

Are old dungeons and raids a rewarding form of content in the game? Yes.
Has the difficulty and challenge of old dungeons and raids decreased over time? Yes.
Have the means of fast travel outside and inside old dungeons and raids increased over time? Yes.
So is the reward overproportioned relative to the time and effort invested? Yes.
Are Blizzard in the right to seek a better balance by increasing the time investment through longer travel distances? Yes.

There is nothing illogical about this. You can dislike and disagree with it, but logically Blizzard’s case is sound.

Don’t you just love it when Jito writes essays on how to suck up to Blizzard.

4 Likes

Refute it if you can.

I mean, the position certain other people argue is that old dungeons and raids should be fast to travel to, trivial to run through, and rewarding to complete.

That is a preposterous position to have, and it is in direct opposition to the gameplay principles that guide the MMORPG genre and which applies to WoW in all other aspects.

One game, one design.

1 Like