Aye, and as much as I have no Super Strong feelings on either side, this IS my one gripe with the debates that rage on about the depth and nuance of the world, vis a vis, there’s a distinct lack of it.
Because of the above.
We get Not Enough depth through the game world, and then patchworks laid on top by out-of-game media.
It IS that way. I just wish it wasn’t 
The difference between an excuse and a reason is whether you like what you hear. I’m not defending the practice, just explaining it. If I’m writing a pulpy fantasy story about larger than life characters from disparate species, then having them primarily defined by a single representative is the efficient way to do it.
And since we hang out with bigwigs as adventurers or RTS commanders, that’s who we end up seeing, and the writing around the factions warps to match.
Just look at Lor’themar/Rommath/The Other Guy…
I’d like more rando-Joe stories, but unfortunately that’s the domain of fanfic for the most part.
Well, actually, most of the fanfic is Sylvanas x Jaina stuff, but the point stands.
Blizzard is afraid of another Cataclysm because of the backlash, thinking it was the changes and not that they made half the world into entire meme zones…
I am sickened, but curious…
No it’s not but, as Elenthas said above, that is the simple reality of what the devs seem to have prioritised.
Personally I would love for them to take on of the better ideas from SWTOR (along with Outfit Slots, PUH-LEASE…) and add in a Codex that actually gave background, depth, context, details, etc etc etc.
But we don’t have that. So “They choose not to write that in depth” is apparently the reason we have to contend with this.
Well yeah, exactly. Maybe the orcish way is just wrong on a fundamental level, at least from a moral standpoint.
Orcs select and choose to follow said leaders.
I honestly don’t mind orcs being inclined to be evil. It’s fine. It’s ok.
Also, where is Corpseburner? Is he safe? Is he alright?
After receiving too many complaints from the pet peevsters he was sent to the Durotan Reeducation Center so he can be a productive member of the Horde instead. He should be only talking about how the factions as a concept and faction conflict are inherently bad at this point.
If he doesn’t the next time we see him on the forums he is probably an impostor.
I wouldn’t have an issue with it if, again, what is established as ‘evil’ was consistent across the board and treated as such no matter which faction or race opted to partake of such actions.
That isn’t often what happens, though. It very quickly devolves into treating even a single human being murdered in cold blood as the worst atrocity ever whereas numerous innocent civilians who happen to be aligned with the Horde being cut down is pushed as wholly justified.
Muh Honour…
I do suspect it’s only a matter of time before we all find ourselves thrown into the Fifth War at any rate. It’s just a question of when and where.
I hope not, because unironically;
This is correct. I’m 99% certain they won’t get rid of them, because two quick-reference identities they can shout “For the Alliance/Horde!” for is so much easier for them (the Devs/Blizz) to deal with, use for marketting, etc etc.
But, narratively, we passed the clear-cut divides of the old factions around about Legion, and BFA onwards was just a turgid and contrived mess, frankly.
I think it’d be more interesting if Orcs maintained the raw, merciless savagery that had been part of them since their inception, while maintaining their complex and established culture. Draenor was a deadly, unsentimental world that bred deadly, unsentimental races. And with one exception among the Frostwolves; Might really did make right.
The problem arises when writers keep pulling Orcs towards a Human understanding of honourable conduct. It only creates layers of frustration and hypocrisy, pitiful scenes of begging for forgiveness, and equally pitiful scenes of their victims granting it.
Just my take.
You can basically add Dustwallow Marsh to the lot, and (meh) Thousand Needles.
They could, y’know, clean up Dustwallow and it would be a great zone. I’ve been told it has a nice port, woods, and all that jazz.
Edit.
I kinda like the idea of orcs being good (not outright evil) but in a bad place; a lot of WC3 showed that it was indeed possible but right now Blizzard keeps the foot in two shoes, so-to-speak.
Which was fine when the lore was that orcs usually thrived in those areas (I like the Badlands quest in vanilla where the local Horde commander describes the area as warm, desolate, full of bloodthirsty beasts and other dangers where the weak do not live long, in other words, perfect).
And then they made the whole penance thing, which still rubs me the wrong way because of how much it clashes with the New Horde of WC3.
It’s how they internally govern themselves, sure. Whether or not they extend this to other cultures depends entirely on the leaders at the time, with the only known evil expansionist leaders being the Warlords of Draenor (MU & AU), Garrosh, Gul’dan and Sylvanas (not even an orc).
Orcs don’t really view themselves as having “elected” such leaders, they’ve proven themselves through strength and not following such a strong leader is seen as “dishonourable” in the eyes of their martial culture. We’ve got no evidence about them thinking about leadership through such a modern and liberal lens.
It works in some settings, but it’s not how this setting has worked since WC2.
Warlords of Draenor demonstrates that the leaders of most clans during the Horde’s foundation were always ruthless megalomaniacs, even without the fel blood, which might be what drove them to drink it in the MU. Under their leadership, in both universes, the orcs were pretty evil.
Then you’ve got the Frostwolves who are led by decent orcs in both universes, the leaderless AU Laughing Skulls, the Mag’har led by a reformed AU Grom and then Geya’rah, and the Mag’har led by Greatmother Geyah in the MU, and the New Horde, when led by anyone other than Garrosh and Sylvanas. In these groups, under these leaders, orcs aren’t evil, so boiling it down to “orcs are naturally evil” is a bit reductive.
The big issue comes from the fact that this whole franchise started off with WC1 and WC2, which really was just as simple as good humans (and friends), evil orcs (and friends). The setting expanded after that, but a lot of people (even the developers sometimes) really like to zoom in on those first two games and return to the vibes of those first two games.
If even Blizzard has barely given the concept of orcs as people rather than monsters a chance, I can’t blame players for being reluctant to entertain the idea.
And this is incredibly lopsided, the Alliance have done numerous bits of imperialistic nonsense or horrendous acts (what were the Dwarves doing in the Barrens eh?). But they’re never a lingering plot point as the story goes forwards. And if it is the Horde is depicted as a villain over it.
Ultimately, Blizzard have done two retellings of Warcraft 2. And it’s pretty much cost the Horde a chunk of its unique identity and gutted its character roster.
The reason why the camps weren’t dismantled is because Blackmoore had the grand idea of forcing them to be gladiator slaves for entertainment and kick start a whole new lucrative industry to help recuperate the losses of running the camps. Terenas saw a new source of cash revenue and wanted his piece — though Arthas vocally protested, because he saw Blackmoore train Thrall to be the perfect General while seeding the next generation of orcs with a hatred for humanity. It’s heavily implied that Arthas was planning to dismantle the camps when he’d become King. In part because of Jaina’s influence of how inhumane it is, in part because of the security threat Thrall was shaping up to be if he were to lead the orcs to battle.
Blackmoore separated children from their parents when the parents refused to fight in their lethargy when the blood haze wore off — they were so lethargic they wouldn’t even lift a hand to defend themselves from abuse at the hands of the guards trying to rouse them to fight. The only thing they reacted to was when their children were taken away and held hostage to force the parents to fight in the arenas.
What could have been😩
Still love that pic. Heck, its been years since I first saw that.
Is that Arthas in a timeline where he became King?
Also, on the topic of Arathi there is something I wonder… after the Alliance won the warfront there during BfA, what stopped them from kicking the Horde out of Hammerfall and Go’shek farm aswell? ( Probably gameplay reasons).
But from an in-character point of view… that was the prime moment to retake the entirety of the Highlands for Stromgarde.