Alright boys, our long lasting reign in m+ utility is over. It took only a week or two for devs to remove AoE kidney shot talent. Not that it was fine to give a spec 7 seconds long uncapped AoE stun but it was something in the good direction which could be tweaked or nerfed. But it’s been removed instead.
Right now if you want to pug high keys, your class needs to bring either bloodlust, mass dispell or some sort of aoe cc and Rogue has none of those things. Everyone has a gimmick and I mean everyone. You need priest for bursting, paladin for entangle, poly/hex for Incorporeal and so on. Like who in their right mind would invite a rogue to their party when they can simply buy 5 invis potions for every member of the group? Shiv is basically Tranq shot but worse, Kidney is HoJ but worse, Blind is polymorph but worse. There is nothing we do better than other classes and for once we would have a reason to be invited, Blizzard said no. In return they gave us more damage, which is the only thing we do just fine.
I’m not asking for a broken, must have type of a spell to be added in our kit but if every class has an identity then so should rogues. If you add invis potion to the game then maybe you should also add mass dispell pot, blessing of protection pot and so on. And If you won’t, then give us something in return and don’t remove it after a week of testing.
My expectation was that Kidney talent would reduce the duration by 50% and another 50% in pvp. So it would be around 3-4 seconds long in pve and 1.5-2 seconds in pvp which would make your kidney shot horrible in pvp so it would be viable only in m+ and certain add fights as it was intended to be.
It is honestly kinda funny to see rogue complain about this in M+.
Let us just ignore the 2 full expansions that had a rogue in every group and Shadowlands preferred to have a rogue in the group.
Rogue has this ability called Shroud rogue was the only one who could do this for a very very long time.
Invis pots are on the same cooldown as combat pot so you have to choose go invis or use a pot with a rogue in the group you can always just use a combat pot.
Literally existed from the beginning of Mythic + of being a thing in this game yet that did not change that rogue was brought for so many seasons.
I do not think you understand how broken strong it can be to skip things for easier things.
Welcome down on the ground where normal classes are and have been for a very long time while rogue has been either the meta pick or a class right next to meta.
Every Roguespec can spread their poisoneffects with its AE,only limited by a little rng and your energy. Every effect last 10sec. The AE-skills are basicskills on every spec and do not have CDs.
So you telling me that up to two strong poiseneffects on multiple Enemies is not a reason for a group to take a rogue with them? No strong AE-Effect? 40% healreduction/18%slower attackspeed/60%slower movement? To me that sounds amazingly powerfull.
Realz, the rogue lead dev, commented on this on the Rogue discord.
Apparently they tested Stunning Secret with a 50% reduced stun duration and it was still “giga OP”. So they opted to get rid of it completely and instead made AoE blind a class tree thing.
Fellow Rogues you need to leave your bias behind. An AoE Kidney Shot, in any content, is unnecessary and very broken. It should not be in the game, and removing it was the right move. You can still stun multiple targets as you always could, by sacrificing offensive globals. There were seasons in which the meta was TRIPLE ROGUE, I don’t think anyone should complain about Rogue in M+ just because they aren’t an auto pick for one season and a half. Get real a little.
And the other problem was that Sub was the only rogue spec to have it in this form, which would have resulted in the two other spec to be thrown in the thrash.
How can you compete as outlaw with 1.5min stop cast blind, while sub can Hard Stun the pack for 4-5 sec each 24sec? Not even talking about Assa (Since i just don’t care to be honnest).
Rogue has always been good in M+, one of the if not the best option as melee, even if rogue’s weren’t top dps, still plenty of them we’re brought because of their toolkit,
in my opinion, removing AoE stun was the right move, because when you give a Rogue also a AoE stun, why would you ever pick another melee Class?
You say that, but I dont see why on earth I should pick a Rogue over anything else, more or less all classes do some insane damage. And bring buffs that benefit the group.
Survival hunter is a class that gets some hard time by the community for not being good for group gameplay. But what would you bring, surival hunter that will do the same dmg if not more than the Rogue, yes even more then Outlaw on PTR. It also does that dmg with way less buttons. That also brings bloodlust, traps, tranq shoot, and now, hunters mark.
If you have a Hunter already, why bring a Rogue over a Warrior ? That Warrior will give attack power atleast, and will have good burst for those packs that needs to die.
Why take a Rogue over a Mage ? Mage brings Lust, Sheep, Arcane int, Food for healers if needed, Mass barrier or the only ability Rogues have… Mass Invis. They also do amazing dmg.
There is a reason why a buff class is always wanted in a group gameplay setting.
All classes have damage, most have some sort of either aoe stun or single target stun and on top of that a group buff.
I can see that an aoe stun in PvP would be an issue, but you can just give the Aoe Kidney the same range as a leg sweep 6-8 yards. (Monk) I dont think this “Rework” is enough to get Rogue in to the “Meta”
Rogue’s have been Meta for a lot of seasons since M+ released, probably most of any Class, they also bring a lot of utility, Sap to skip stuff, Shroud of Concealment to skip, sure you can bring invis pots but that means u miss out on dps from using dps pots, theyre the best at locking a mob down completely with kick, cheap shot, kidney shot, gouge, a Rogue alone can make sure a dangerous Mob will never be able to cast if it wants to, I dont think any other Class is capable of that,
They also have Shiv to soothe, which is very useful in higher keys, they also have poison to just give a flat % damage reduction, or reduce cast and attack speed,
they have Blind, an instant CC is always nice, and works on affixes, War for example has nothing for Incorporeal if I remember right, also they have Distract, which is extremely useful in a lot of situations also, and Tricks of the trade is also nice to have,
besides that theyre really tanky because of cheat death, Feint, evasion and cloak of shadows, and being able to totally immune magic damage for 5 seconds I think, again, very useful, just an example would be 3rd boss in underrot to completely skip a Boss mechanic.
I’m sure I miss some stuff but all in all, Rogue has very good utility, and most of the time, at least one of their 3 Dps specs is very good dps wise, give Rogue a AoE stun would in my opinion be to much, then there would be almost no reason to bring any other melee ever, and I am playing Rogue also, so it’s not that I hate the Class or something, I just think it would make Rogue to valuable compared to other melee Classes.
Dont even think that a hunter will do hunters mark in m+ its a waste of a global cd, also outlaw does the same dmg yes i actually think even more tbh. This will bring rogue back in the m+ scene if u think it isnt u dont know what they are capable off. Also why bring a survival hunter who is Mediocre at best at Single target vs an outlaw rogue who bursts like a cannon and keep it almost the entire fight. My choice is made.
I have testet both Survival is insane in 10.2 with set gear bonus!
And now outlaw is getting a 6% nerf. They also dosnt add anything to a team comp! So my choice is also made, bring something other then Rogues to a mythic plus team
Shroud of concealment can now be done by mages. Shamans can interrupt almost as often as rogues. Every class has some kind of interrupt. Rogue is more or less just another dps that comes behind other classes in terms of prioritization . I’ve done many pugs ins season 1. It was really hard to get into m+ with higher keys. I’ve donemany on 20 btw.
The new talents or “rework” how some call it is garbage. It’s obvious that rogue gets no love from the devs.
