Please remove all ret pvp nerfs so this class can actually do some damage single target .
Buff final verdict our main holy power spender needs to feel like it actually does something BTW! Or if no buff change the name to final tickle please
13 Likes
But ret is doing ok in m+
This will be answer by some people.
2 Likes
Only if they dont know that most dmg in pvp is nerfed to some degree.
Be it the Burst CDs, the healing of basically everything down to the abilities themselfs.
For example i think Hammer of Light only does 0.8 (80%) of its dmg in pvp. So its not only that we do less dmg while wings are up in pvp compared to pve, everything else does less aswell.
Un-nerfing this has 0 effect on PvE.
Imo its shortsighted solution to just increase dmg and usualy leads to a bigger backlash nerf later on.
What needs to happen is whatever future classes they have in mind, cancel them and give their planned abilities to Paladins! Its that or paladins remain the purist vanilla class that it is!
Many changes over the years yet nothing changed, the spec is stuck!
1 Like
Ret is not the only class suffering from these pvp nerfs i dont understand why blizzard do it no wonder people are quitting the game because they cant play the classes they want to play.
Some classes are literally one shotting right now but that ok because they are a rogue or a mage this is fine in blizzard eyes every season.
2 Likes
And thats what makes it all irrelevant as everyone gets them. Thats why im NOT asking for a dmg buff and never will.
What Rets ARE suffering from is
- The least ammount of hard CC
- The CC being melee range
- Both CC duration nerfed in pvp and both dispellable
- The weakest slows of all classes, non spammable
- 0 roots
- No major debuff
- No instant gapcloser
They added range to a MELEE class (but removed range from our stun at the same time) because they cant come up with a way for Rets to get a gapcloser without “homogenization” a rule that ONLY applies to Ret from what i see.
Other classes can share in leaps, charges, teleports, MS debuff, Freedom (or emancipate like), bubbles and divine steed (tbh its just a glorified sprint but the look was atleast unique to paladins) etc.
Its a double standard that blizz has made for the class and this class alone!
3 Likes
To be honest i dont have any trouble getting to my targets yeah it can be a pain sometime but always connecting when i need to the problem is even though im purple parsing while on a kill target the dmg is still meh i have broken my new keyboard playing ret this season and only managed to get to 2.3 almost so far
And that crapshow is happening again.
While some classes are left to do insane amount of damage others are getting big nerfs and made into a joke.
1 Like
More and more classes are getting puchbacks of some kind, we have 0 counters for this. Its always fun when one of those classes are FC and are on a floor above with it. Against a rogue, warrior and DKs they have to outplay them for the pushback to be effective. Against a paladin the minimum effort with positioning is whats needed.
It always comes back to bubble in the end as the simple answer to everything.
We cant get new abilities cuz we have bubble and the same goes for dmg.
Its the anchor that needs to be removed, its unhealthy for the game and unhealthy for further development for the class.
2 Likes
What Rets ARE suffering from is
The least ammount of hard CC
The CC being melee range
That’s something that came up again, the option to talent into a longer range cc was removed.
Both CC duration nerfed in pvp and both dispellable
I don’t get that either. Is there a magic CC stun that is disspellable not spamable?
It is possible to disspell fear but you can spam it.
The weakest slows of all classes, non spammable
Our slow was nerved multiple times, we had Hand of Hinderance and a talent that Blade of Justice could apply it. Both where very useable. Blade of Justice fits very well into that is a short range melee attack
No major debuff
You mean like a incomming damage debuff or heal debuff?
No instant gapcloser
Horse is supposed to be that which is kinda ok but without freedom it can be useless very fast.
It was removed the same time we became a semi ranged “melee”
HoH had a 15 sec CD and the one BoJ gave only slowed the target for 2 sec
Its just a sprint, nothing more. Rogues, Druids and DKs has that aswell… hell dont warriors leap also give them a 70% sprint for 3 sec? Its nothing unique and now not even the vissual of it is unique. But all other classes that has a sprint also has a gapcloser!
1 Like
Ah I didn’t exactly remember anymore, it got removes with the redesign patch of 10.0.7.
There seems to be disconnect with the developers responsible for class design and gameplay.
The HoH was 30 sec but will dispell reduce by 15. BoJ gave 3 sec HoH.
Not that it exactly matters if it’s 2 or 3 sec but it was still very useful.
Is there a double standard or is it because just because supposedly we have so many support skills? Something to the horse unique could work such as the prot paladin PvP talent. Another thing could be a trample talent which knocks everyone down for 1 sec which is in front of the horse.
I don’t mind that there no effective gap closer as long as our slow is strong enough and possible includes a root effect. There are so many possibilities to make the horse more than a visual effect for a speed buff.
For pvp no dispellable freedom would be perfect for mobillity 100%
Was it 30 sec? Made it far worse then i remember. Might have been because EVERYONE can self dispell slows, it was always on a 15 sec CD. And a 3 sec slow is as usefull as todays 30% slow.
Yes, yes there is. The refusal of adding any gapcloser and then leaning back to the semi ranged design is just weird as we have been down this path once before. Back in WoD we had become semi ranged aswell with most attacks having range added to them. We were fairly mobile aswell with a (i think) 45% speed boost from judgment for 3 sec on a 6 sec CD, in other words 50% uptime.
With Legion they reset the whole design to become melee again with heavy nerfs to our mobility with a Pony that only lasted 3 sec on a 45 sec CD. WoD released 2014, took them 10 years to get us to that place and 10 years later we are back at the same spot!
Ret is an very ironic class, dont think any other class has gotten so many overhauls on thier design yet is somehow the most unchanged class of all!
The “support skills” you talked about as a counterweight as to not get anything others have, can you name 3 that we didnt have in vanilla? Can you name 1 that isent a pvp talent?
Edit: There are many things they could have added to the horse, as it was taken from Diablo 3. All the skills that the D3 version could do might have been added to it. Yet it was only made into a sprint while Prot for some reason got an unique effect.
Just a thought about the pony. If they are so dead set on it being a staple of paladin, make it act more like a rogues steatlh?
When on the horse, get new kinds of attacks for mounted combat/healing/tanking etc. Ones that involve trampling, dragging ppl with chains etc.
Make it actually do something for the class!
That sounds kinda too op especially if we get some damage buffs …
Why would there be dmg buffs?
Attacks could be added that can only be made while on horse but they need to add something the normal attacks dont.
Might even be that when on horse, When FV and/or Hammer of Light is used the horse unsnares and also charges the target?
Or just a new finnisher can be used instead of FV that adds a strong DoT on target?
The CC options added while on horse just like a rogues stealth does.
Prot paladins could get a commanding pressence while on horse buffing all in his aura range on something?
Things like that and im sure there are more and better options to add. Just make it more then a sprint so it actually feels like a part of the paladins toolset and a bit unique!
No i meen if they buff rets damage and give us all of those mobillty options we would be getting hit hard by the nerf bat 1 week later thats how blizz role with paladin we can never be OP for too long
I dont think we need a dmg buff for pvp. Its a short term solution that fixes none of the issues ret has.
We lack tools to stop healers from healing, we have the minimum number of CC to use and 2 of them are melee range and other is casted + rebuke… thats it.
To deal with that in dmg alone Ret would need unhealable burst to compensate and would break Ret both in PvE and PvP.
Thats why i would want an option to drag players away from their healer, healer away from dps or drag players near a cliff for a mage/hunter/shaman to blast them away.
But i dont want to auto drag anyone as soon as i mount up, as sometimes i just want to run away, thats why additional attacks on the bars would need to be added much like a rogues stealth does.
Any dmg buff only lasts untill the next balance patch, then its forgotten or enough ppl cry about ret dmg and the nerf bat comes.
1 Like
I know it was only really useful when an opponent didn’t know how to pay attention or was overwhelmed. The blade slow was more useful at least it was much stronger but maybe it felt stronger then since it was -70% speed.
I think part of the issue is and I’m assuming that now because how they are organized that their is no consistency in the design team or the person responsible for a class spec.
Maybe the issue isn’t logical but emotional that there’s a bias and any arguments are just hot air since they won’t be taken into account or at least not knowingly.
I don’t get why is there a double standard why?
From a balance point of view I’m fine with not having certain things such as a healing-debuff if I can heal other as an offhealer correctly.
[quote=“Bodhi-silvermoon, post:13, topic:552802, full:true”]
The “support skills” you talked about as a counterweight as to not get anything others have, can you name 3 that we didnt have in vanilla? Can you name 1 that isent a pvp talent?
Most of the “support skills” where passives such as the massive amount of buffs that we got over time such as the plus incoming damage effect from our judgements or the positive outgoing damage from the auras.
The issue lies in some way around WoW’s way of implementing support skills, they are mostly passive the most active thing is that you press a button to replace the buff with a new one before it expiries. Lotro has a similar class to WoW’s paladin the captain, there the buffs for either heal, tank or dps spec come from activate participation in the battle. I.e. if wow would have something like this in paladin class you press crusader strike and the dps increases for retribution talented and for protection it would be reduced incoming damage.
There is no method to supporting besides those skills which actively require to prevent damage or safe someone from death which is in PvE mostly a healer thing, in PvP that’s a different thing
Recently we got reducing the cooldown on movement for other players. Generally our has become gradually better that at times it is actually useable, although that’s something that comes and goes, however the skill existed since classic it never worked the way as it was intended up until very recent.
I don’t think a stance swap on the horse would be a good idea because of general balancing and the inability to press other skills but passives such as a trample effect would be very useful. Maybe a few skills that you can use in conjunction with the horse buff such as a intervene effect similar to warriors.
What I don’t understand is why spend time on tank paladin talents at all, except for war-mode, and why put skills that ret requires it to the protection pvp talents?
That’s where I see the double standard is. There are other specs such as destruction wl’s who can burst much more.