Representations

Community General Discussion
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I notice everyone puts “stright white male” into one box and acts like they are represented everywhere. There is so many cultures that fit into that box that most “stright white males” aren’t actually represented. There is so many “stright white male” cultures around the world. Even in the UK “Stright white males” culture tends to be different depending on where you are.

Wow has always been diverse culture reference wise. The thing that made sense was when they added more Black Human npcs. I liked that mainly because it made the game more customised and each npc stands out from each other. Although what about the other races of the world? Why did they not add more skin colours instead of just concentrating on black?

TLDR: “Stright white male” isn’t a single box for representation.

Also don’t agree with the whole “I can’t discuss a subject because it isn’t aimed at me” You don’t need to have something aimed at you to know about the subject or understand it/disagree.

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86

I feel like I’m widely represented in wow to be fair, the protagonists I can think of are almost all of that kind: khadgar, varian, Illidan and malfurion (ok they’re purple elves but I think they still go by that role), the blood elf king I can’t remember the name of, all of the dwarves, Anduin (though not your typical alpha male), all of the human important characters, ARTHAS, and I think I can keep going. The only ones I wouldn’t count are thrall, saurfang, baine and so on, as they really aren’t that related, though they still embody the alpha, muscular angry men, which is is still strictly related to white straight men.

I guess that what I want to tell is that, again, I do feel widely represented, so I don’t really know how it would be not to in wow, atleast, hence I can’t really formulate an opinion if not by imagination.

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The issue at hand involves evaluating the impact of changes made to characters in video games. To do so, we need to consider four key questions: Who are the characters being changed? What aspects of them are being altered? Where are these changes being made? And why are they happening?

When it comes to changes made to characters, it’s essential to ensure that they are not simply done for the sake of adding racial or sexual identity to the game. Such changes can often contradict the established lore of a game or disrupt the character’s journey, resulting in a less satisfying experience for players. Instead, developers should strive to create authentic diversity that adds depth to the game world.

For instance, the addition of different types of elves in World of Warcraft, each with their own cultures, ethnic features and religions, is an excellent example of how diversity can be integrated into a game in a way that enhances the player’s experience. However, when changes are made that don’t make sense with the established lore, such as adding darker-skinned high elves to a primarily fair-skinned population, it can be jarring and disrupt the narrative.

Similarly, when creating different races of humans within a game, it’s important to avoid lazy implementation or oversimplification. Rather than merely adding different skin tones to characters, developers should create unique cultures, religions, and ways of life for each race, which will add depth and richness to the game world.

In conclusion, changes to characters in video games should be made thoughtfully and with an eye towards creating authentic diversity that enhances the player’s experience. By doing so, developers can create a more engaging and satisfying game for players.

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89

Only took 26 comments this time round…

While I couldn’t care less about American politics, I’m pretty much of the opinion that not caring about representation is a privilege of those, who were always represented in the first place. If you never had to feel like you’re excluded in public perception then you probably won’t understand.

Waiting for the “gaming and movies are white culture” posts now…

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Representation is just an ESG stunt and an appeal to low IQ people that has been pushed these last years. When you’re educated enough, you look beyond physical/origin traits that remind you of yourself (which is ironic because “racism bad” movements love to point out at skin colours or at what you have between your legs, instead of encouraging to look beyond).

And beyond the intellectual aspect, representation is obnoxious because it reduces worldbuilding to a mere dull and boring reflection of the real world. Obviously there have always been inspirations from the real world, but you can’t tell me that having gay centaurs, they/them pronouns and palette-swapping decades’ old NPCs to black is not an extremely lazy attempt of catering and/or an ESG cash grab that has nothing to do with the worldbuilding.

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91

I’m a big fan of Asian movies. Indian, Chinese and Korean. I’ve been seeing those since I was a kid. One of my proudest possessions are a collection of dvds by Raj Anand, including the cringey romance comedies he did back in the 2000s. Especially the Chinese movies. I’ve probably seen every martial arts movie from the 70s to date. The question of representation didn’t even enter my mind and probably would never have if you people didn’t make it a thing and even so, why the hell would I want to be represented in one of those movies?

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92

Picture a scenario where you cannot understand or connect with individuals who don’t resemble or behave similarly to yourself. I am pretty sure there exists a word to describe such a person. :joy:

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93

Yeah and to me that’s the attraction, it’s something new, something exotic. My first reaction is to view it even more to begin to understand it. Not “hmm, I don’t understand this, I better get them to represent me”.

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94

My favourite movies growing up were Blade, Starship Troopers and Hellboy. I am not American, black, Argentinian or the anti-Christ, but I can relate to all of these characters because I’m a human. If you need to see people who look like you in media to feel validated, you are nothing but a self-conscious racist, sexist or prude.

People focus way too much on these issues to the point it’s no longer additive to the experience but the experience in itself, which degrades the medium, work and experience.

The worst thing you can be is bad in entertainment.

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95

Like I said way above, I think this demand for representation originates from a racist idea. To me, representation is not something positive.

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96

Tolkien was correct when it comes to representation, as I hinted at before. He understood the importance of including diverse peoples with unique cultures, religions, and beliefs. Authentic representation in fantasy allows us to see different groups as they are in our world rather than simply as a diverse mess. This approach adds depth and interest to the world-building aspect of fantasy storytelling.

The Rohiram are the Rohiram
Gondorians are Gondorians.
The Easterlings are the Easterling
The dark Gondorians are the dark Gondorians
The Hobbits are the Hobbits.
The Sylvan elves are the Sylvan elves.

Each has its unique place in the world and brings something special. They also have their own depth with offshoot cultures tribes and clans which make the world feel full.

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97

Skipping carefully over the dubious concept of “privilege”, the faulty underlying assumption is that “representation” for any given person in any given artwork is determined by one of: skin colour, sex, or sexual preference. Maybe a couple of others, but they’re pretty downplayed.

This is obviously false. It’s false for me, from my own experience, and it’s false for just about everyone I have ever known, based on their reactions.

If it were true, then no woman could identify with a male character, or any man with a female.

I have variously identified with Jo March, Tom Sawyer, Jean Grey, Superman, Emma Woodhouse, Captain William Dobbin, Katyusha Maslova, Pierre Bezukhov, Ellen Ripley, Rick Deckard … you name it. Pick an era and a genre and I’ll find heroes, and anti-heroes, and non-heroes I identified with who are very “unlike” me by the misleading matric. (OK, I’m more books than film, so you might stump me on modern stuff.)

Having taught middle school early in my life, I can also assure you VERY reliably that race never stopped stop 11- and 12-year old boys from identifying with Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee. :stuck_out_tongue:

Even more easily, I could find so many characters who tick every one of the boxes approved by the ideologues the same way I do, and I don’t recognise anything about them.

There simply is nothing to this.

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98

I just think Lorthemar is cool

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I do 100% agree on your stance on identifying with characters, and how that transcends, and in essence has nothing to do with, this at times rather odd practice.

Yet if you look at it from another angle, to me at least it does make sense. Most western countries are a melting pot in many ways, with very varying demographics. And for a long time our media were overwhelmingly white and straight. I understand the wish that these media include the presence of ‘your people’ (whoever they may be) as a mirror image of society as a whole. You exist, you are normal, you belong.

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100

I live in a very open minded city, where people from all walks of life are accepted and welcomed. I live and let live, I don’t get in the way of people’s happiness especially if it genuinely causes no mental or physical harm to anyone else.

When it comes to video games, films etc, I want first and foremost, good gameplay, entertaining story, compelling characters, interesting mythology, world building that matters and above all consistency and no meaningless retcons.

Tick those boxes first, then you can add all the representation you want. Avoid tokenistic representations at all costs, as not only does it do a disservice to the group of people in question, but it then causes unnecessary inflammatory reactions from “opposing” groups…

Generally with things like a wow, I agree with the sentiment of this sentence:

I don’t play wow to get a deep thought provoking reaction about the state of my world. Plenty of great films out there to watch with serious messages. I’m not saying that wow should be dumb, but it doesn’t need to be an ultra deep serious affair neither. It just needs to be cool and entertaining and make me want to shout silly things like “zug zug”, “for the Horde” “for the alliance” or “I Am mY sCArS” :rofl:.

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101

You do know that some of the ‘guys’ who imagined and told those stories were actually women using male pseudonyms because it was the only way to sell their stories?

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And? Their stories were so good they became timeless. Which is the point I was trying to make. What’s yours?

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That I’m amused by your assumption that ‘timeless’ stories were told by ‘guys’, and saddened by the knowledge that writers with female and non-English sounding names still struggle to succeed in the fantasy genre specifically because of bias in favour of white males.

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Your tentative to vilify white males is noted.

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105

It’s a well-established fact that writers, both male and female, used pen names to protect their privacy, family, and reputation. This was especially true during the Victorian age when fans of famous authors were just as persistent as they are today. The idea that women had to hide behind male names to get anywhere in life is simply slanderous and a lie. The truth is that female writers, as well as dancers, musicians, actors, poets, and so on, were able to make significant contributions to their respective fields despite the societal limitations placed upon them.

It’s important to note that most female writers were highly educated and came from influential families of politicians, journalists, judges, and doctors. They were very well-respected for their talents and had legal rights to get published. In fact, more than 600 female authors were published during the Victorian age, and Mary Shelley’s portrait was on display in the Royal Academy in the 19th century.

Let’s put this victim narrative nonsense to bed once and for all. It’s insulting to the writers and people of the time, who were frankly more educated and principled than most of the modern population. While both men and women had societal constraints, the notion that women had to resort to such tactics to achieve success is misguided and revisionist history.

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