Hey all,
I'm a Resto Druid, currently running M+14s, and trying to decide which legendary to use to push higher. I mostly PUG so my priority is more healing than dps as groups are not always coordinated enough. Most guides seem to suggest Dark Titan for heal and Circle of life and Death for dps, but looking at it, seems like CoLD is not bad for healing either, not just as an afterthought. The way I see it, to compare the two you assume you are running photosynthesis for both and keeping lifebloom on the tank, then the difference is 15% faster hots on CoLD vs. 20% faster hots on the DT but you need to waste a GCD to keep lifebloom on yourself (sometimes it's not wasted). In terms of healing throughput feels similar, but on top of that, with CoLD you get the option to run Flourish instead of Photosynthesis which is quite useful with prideful, and also 25% faster dots which feels almost like a bonus. So CoLD feels better even if you don't dps a lot. I'm interested in others thoughts if I'm thinking of this wrong and DT is actually much better from a healing point of view.
Another option is Mother Tree. MT I feel lacks the increased throughput that DT and CoLD have, when I ran it it felt that sometimes it was wasted, and sometimes when I needed it it didnāt proc, so a bit frustrating, but I can see how it synergizes well with Flourish when it does proc so itās a solid option.
Final option is Verdant Infusion which seems to be making a comeback in high keys, thatās the one I donāt have so canāt judge but I can see how it can make for super solid ST healing, so if you donāt have group damage, you can HOT up the tank and dps away. With prideful (and particularly Grievous this week) I feel at the moment Iād rather have stronger group healing,
So far Iāve been using DT but think I want to switch to CoLD but not because of the dps increase, because of the hot increase + ability to have a third strong CD in flourish.
Thoughts on these 4 ?
I used to run a DT + Photosynthesis build, but switched to Circle + Flourish this week. I expected my damage to go up, and my healing down a littleā¦ I was so wrong. With Flourish, and switching from Dreamweaver to Naiya, I have some pretty insane burst healing windows.
I havenāt tried MT or VI, because I donāt have access to MT, and VI I simply didnāt like, so I can only compare DT and Circle.
DT is great with Photosynthesis, and works well when thereās small ticking damage across the group. It also plays well with Dreamweaverās Empowered Chrysalis, turning the overheal into a little - but noticable - shield.
For Circle, I went with Flourish instead, for the burst healing, and switched from Dreamweaver to Naiya, to have two potency conduits and a nice mastery boost on Convoke - all contributing to the burst healing every few minutes. This is amazing when the group is taking a ton of damage - like on Grievous weeks. (I also run Renewal on Grievous weeks, while Iād normally run Wild Charge.)
For Tyrannical week, I will likely switch back to DT, because I wonāt need the burst. Unless I end up being able to have longer damage windows, in which case Iāll equip Circle again.
Thanks, pretty good tips ! Agreed that Flourish is very useful with Grievous, I guess my question is why would you want to go back to DT, you get a small increase in healing (20% instead of 15%) but for that you lose: ability to go flourish if you want, 10% on your lifebloom tank heal, a GCD every 15 seconds. Doesnāt it sound like Circle might be marginally better for healing, and then when you add the 25% increase in DOT a no-brainer ?
Circle will require you to refresh HoTs more often, because they fall off faster (and it scales with haste, as usual), so youāll be losing more GCDs in the long run. You loose Photosynthesis and double life bloom, and double LB + Photosynthesis heals more than faster HoTs.
What Circle is good for is burst with Flourish, and damage. For pure healing, DT wins. (Or Mother Tree too, even.)
Ah ok so DT increases amount of healing delivered, I was confused by the photosynthesis description which said āperiod heals heal 20% fasterā, I thought it was the same as CoLD as in it delivered the same heal just quicker. Thanks for clearing that up 
Photosynthesis makes the HoTs tick faster, but does not reduce their duration, so in practice, they deliver more healing for the same cost. With DT + Photosynthesis, you can have faster ticking HoTs and LB on the tank, and that adds up to a fair amount of healing. (It also gives you more clearcast procs due to double LB, but thatās very tricky to use efficiently.)
In contract, Circle makes the HoTs faster (but not as fast as Photosynthesis), but also reduces their duration. So they deliver the same healing, not more, just faster. You can still play it with Photosynthesis, but then you either loose LB on the tank, or the faster HoTs. Either way, it doesnāt increase healing / cast, it just makes them faster, and more bursty. The major advantage of Circle is the damage: at the moment, we donāt have much time to do damage, and DoTs are still our main source. Making them deliver the damage faster is a noticable increase of our output.
I use circle of life and deathā¦in raids alsoā¦ The reason is simple i get to skip geting much hasteā¦ Also its strong on fights that req faster healing(high burst fights) also good in pvpā¦ ā¦ Since it reduces the time between each tickā¦ It last shorter so u dont prehot as much with itā¦ And u need go photo talentā¦ and always use LB on yourselfā¦ Its rly strong combo with spring blossomā¦ It will be ur nr 3 strongest heal ability w that buildā¦(for raid go versatility +crit) if M+(mastery with some versatility)ā¦ It dosnt eat that much mana when u get to learn how play with itā¦
If you like Circle in raids feel free to run it but keep in mind that it is not a hps upgrade (might even be a downgrade since you cant ramp for dmg event well enough - which is pretty much what druids do: prehot before incoming damage). It might even be better to wear no legendary than to wear Circle in raids.
I do good healing with it in the raidā¦ i wanted to use it for m+ onlyā¦but after i tested it in a raidā¦i notice it improved my healer much more than the other ābisā legendaries i had ( they never procs and cricle of life is always an active effect) ā¦ But Keep in mind i have the versatility buildā¦( pure raid healing build)ā¦ My haste is super low ( 9-10%) meaing the other legendaries dosnt do well for meā¦Because they req you to have at least 15-20% haste to trigger enough to make it worth moreā¦ If you are druid w low hasteā¦ cricle is rly strongā¦
There is no versatility build (anymore, there was one in season 4 of bfa). People have high amounts of versatility because pvp gear is so good (and easy to get).
You donāt need high values of haste for them to be better and circle doesnāt make your healing better with low haste. Circle makes your hots heal faster but also fall of faster (different to haste / talents like photo which do not reduce duration but rather give additional ticks towards the end).
As I said, if you enjoy circle, continue playing it but it is objectively false to state that it is good for raid content as it is simply not. Its not a question of feels but of how much healing it adds and those numbers can and have been estimated
It dosnt inc the healing in any form that it adds extra heals ā¦it simply allows you to heal up people much fasterā¦in a raid setting w high burst damage that can save livesā¦ it dosnt add any healing itselfā¦ (if you have a lot of haste cricle dosnt do goodā¦)
Haste actually effect the legendary procsā¦ and the reason u want versatility is because it inc your healing regardless of how many hots you have unlike mastryā¦in a raid seting you dont have mana nor time to have many hots on same targetā¦ so mastry dosnt do so well in huge raidsā¦at last when you dosnt have mana nor the gearā¦ As healer ur goal is not to top the HPS meters ā¦ but keep the raid aliveā¦ u can do a lot healing but it dosnt mean it saved someone form dyingā¦ect
Thanks for āexplainingā raid healing to me. What actually saves lives is ramping before incoming damage (where longer hot durations help), and Convoke + Flourish the actual events.
Haste affects unending growth as you get more rejuv ticks overall and thus more chances to spread to another target but even with low haste they add more to your healing (overall and emergency). Why do you think that for some reason you know better than theorycrafter and experienced raider that cleared the raid weeks ago? I do not thats why I listen to people who know better than me.
First of all few have tested that legendary ( at last for resto) no logs have documentet it! ā¦ and things change when you get better gear ā¦ so what was good early on - dosnt mean itās good later onā¦ ( goes both ways)ā¦A lot of people jugde stuff w/o even testing it themselvesā¦
Even with the cricle + photo you still kinda ramp upā¦but right before the dmg hitā¦ ā¦and the nice part isā¦ you can controll itā¦like if you dont want hots to go off to early/fastā¦ you drop useing LB on yourselfā¦and only add it when you want the extra faster healsā¦ ectā¦
The legendary inc it only to 15%ā¦ itās with the photosynthesis its gets strongā¦
I dont blindly follow others peopleā¦ i like to do observations and experience myself alsoā¦ Ik people say get that and thatā¦ but you know what i tested it i got thatā¦it was shiity for me - i wanted something betterā¦ i found itā¦ i simply want to share that experienceā¦ People can choose what they wantā¦ i just want to share light on others options ā¦ it may not help youā¦
but maybe someone who finds the typical resto druid playstyle crap and want something elseā¦
Why do you think so?
Do you even understand why ppl use haste for raid and M+? Iāve got the feeling that you donāt.
The reason the people go for haste is mainly for the GCD-reduction. Not for extra hotticks, even though its a good bonus and yes, it can add to more rejuv with unending growth. But you really want to ramp up your heal before big damage is incoming and for that you want shorter GCD and longer hot-uptimes.
To tell you the truth: especially for circle you want higher haste, because it helps getting hots up again faster, after they ran out faster than they normally do. Problem would be, that you might have the higher risk to be struggling with mana a lot more.
I think the one legendary in raiding that does not depend so much on haste might be mothertree tbh. But definetly not circle.
I did check your logs (sorry about that, but I wanted to understand where you are coming from) and yes, you might be ākind ofā successful with it (at least at some fights). But I also see some problems in your way of healing.
If you feel good with circle thatās fine. Go for it. But it does not make it a good pick for raiding as Elayria already stated.
You got enough burst with convoke and flourish. And you have a lot of other healing cooldowns (tree and tranq). Circle and Photo in raiding have to much downsides, so itās nothing to be recommended imho.
No logs have documentet it? There are quite a few logs which you can find with photo and circle. And there some in the upper ranks. But if you look only a little bit further you can also find a restodruid healing with BoaT, which does not add any heal at all. So it does not have to mean much. 
Does not change the fact, that it has too many downsides.
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Haste is kinda hard to get when none of you gear has itā¦ and we must also consider my low ilvlā¦
- It would have been cool if geared druid could test thisā¦(im 211 ilvl)
I assume it isnt good with much haste -
because haste kinda does the same thingā¦
I also thought mana would be an issue w my buildā¦
but it actually didnt change muchā¦
On stacked fights itās a beast-- like spring blossom talent w this buildā¦is nr 3 on my healingā¦it does more than tranq and itās active all the timeā¦
it falls off on fights where we cant stack and have to move around a lotā¦
i used to run flourish ā¦but i felt i didnt use it as much and in fights i often eneded up useing it only 2-3 timesā¦ i also forgot to use it many timesā¦ ( i used it after tranq or tree hots)ā¦
I feel in love with the spring blossom and fast heal ticksā¦it just worked better for me,i always have efflorescence up at all timesā¦
In most fights we are stacked thoā¦ the bosses it does less good on is fights like sun-king and last phase of the dancer in hc,ā¦ but the majority of the bosses it does goodā¦ at last for meā¦
āI also thought mana would be an issue w my buildā¦but it actually didnt change muchā¦ā If 15% shorter hots do not affect you mana it mainly shows that you observation skills arenāt as accurate as you hope.
āi used to run flourish ā¦but i felt i didnt use it as much and in fights i often eneded up useing it only 2-3 timesā¦ i also forgot to use it many timesā¦ ( i used it after tranq or tree hots)ā¦ā
āCircle + Photo is a beastā turns into āI forgot to use Flourish thus Im using an alternativeā which is completely fine unless you claim that the alternative is good as it is objectively not.
Not entirely sure about this one but I compared two logs with similar haste and Im fairly confident that Efflo is not affected by Circle. SpB hots are (most likely) but since you only apply 3 stacks of SpB per tick of Efllo youāll never cover the whole raid anyway.
I see the rate of which Efflorescence ticks when player stay on themā¦no more need to be saidā¦
and doing personal attacks because i dont agree or support your opinions is childrishā¦
I have no interest to have further conversations with you.
So youāre claiming you can see a potentially ~0.1 second faster tick?
I compared two logs, both around 700 haste, one using circle the other one not using circle. As far as I can tell there is no 15% difference between the two hits though its arguably not the best way to compare it.
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Tbh i feel somehow that germination and abundance are severely underrated in m+.
Not that any legendary directly benefits from either (and vice-versa) but i still seem to be doing best with germination.
DT and Photosynthesis is cool in theory but from my experience it isnāt reliable since often you need to keep your blooms there where you donāt need them.
Think i am going to go with Mother tree for now and see how it goes.
Circle is garbage in raid, stop with this weird as hell feelycrafting, Circle might even be an hps downgrade since it reduces hot duration.
Germination is garbage in all pve content due to the amount of gcds it costs and the fact that its in the same row as flourish and photo. Abundance on the other hand is good in raid but loses a lot of value in m+ as mana is irrelevant in m+ and regrowth already has a very high base crit chance.
I just want to throw a PSA on here that circle is not a healing legendary, its mostly there just to increase dot damage and has a VERY minor healing increase.
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