Ret pala crit build

Classes Paladin
1

Haste and mastery are supposed to be superior to crit rating, according to Icy Veins. Can a build based on crit rating still be viable?

2

Sim yourself
that’s my advice

1 Like
3

Expurgation Conduit can make crit your best stat.

After the Seraphim fix in Simcraft, mastery isn’t that good anymore for st or has never been in better words.

The value of haste depends on your talents. While SW scales well with haste, FR (in combination with Seraphim) only requires fixed haste breakpoints, one at ~8%, the other at ~25%, everything in between is kinda useless.

So yeah, crit builds a possible.

1 Like
4

Value of haste is how many you can press TV inside FR/ES/SERA
for now my sim say Mastery>Crit=Vers=Haste and the numbers are so close to each other

5

If you replace Vituous Command with Expurgation, your statweights change to

Crit 1.49
Mastery 1.23
Versa 1.22
Haste 1.16

6

yea indeed but i sim 160 dps less with Expuration

7

Are you sure? When I sim your character its just about 45 dps difference.

Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cgsWLKSuYYWPz3Jh2fcuQW

Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9MDHD4Qc8gjvkS5dpQHD1L

Virtuous Command is also a bit buggy in sims. 4% overal sim dps while in real its just 3.3% at best. Guess because simcraft doesn’t mention that Virtuous Command buff can’t be refreshed when doing judgment > x > y > divine toll for example. If you check average buff duration of VC in sims it says 5.1 seconds, which is not possible since the buff only lasts for 5 secs.

1 Like
8

Duh… sorry mate my bad siming an old gear :smiley:
maybe we can elaborate this more
seems My Virtuous command is 4% because the value “x” of haste in reducing judgment to apply the value “y” of Virtuous command
while you’r Character sitting on 3.7% overal sim dps with VC, because your judgement Cd is higher than mine
note i’m sitting on 11.4 sec judgment that means the value of 0.6/7 sec of Judgment is equaly to 0.1 sec of VC uptime
*Applying Zeal talent your VC overall dps will get higher more because your auto attacks are faster
with Zeal you’re VC over dps is 4.4% while mine is 4.8%
still i’m not denying that Crit stat have a good value but always Prioritize Primary stats than i balance my gear
my target is 17% crit with 10 Vers in PVe but RNG loot is RNG mate sigh…

9

Yeah your higher haste rating makes VC more effective but that wasn’t exactly what I meant.

If you go to a training dummy you can check that VC buff can not be refreshed for example when you use Divine Toll while the buff is already active, so average buff duration should never be higher than 5 secs. Its even worse because that means you loose uptime on that buff because some Divine Tolls or Jugments won’t trigger it. Simcraft doesn’t seem to consider that so the average buff duration is 5.1 secs (due to refreshs) and the buff is always applied which makes VC sim better than it is in (WoW) reality. Warcraftlogs reflect that.

So in other words Expurgation is likely a small dps increase insteead of 45 dps decrase, although your crit rating is rather low. Plus its better for AoE/cleave anyway.

10

there is a point of what you’re saying gotta try in mythic + with the Expuration conduit but likely more i need to change my Gem slots to crit

11

Have you done it?

Ret sims are actually pretty bad and not really trustworthy. I thought ES/Sera/FR was fixed a while ago but meh, sims still not line up all CDs properly and even use ES before FR.
The script is a mess with false priorities when using Zeal+Expurgation. I start to believe now that (at least with Expurgation and Crit) Zeal is on par with ES on singletarget since I couldn’t find any difference at hours of dummy smashing and some of my best logs made with Zeal. Also made my own script where Zeal and ES are just 25 dps apart on 5 min Patchwerk fight.

Hopefully someone will look into Virtuous Command and APL (script) issues.
()https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues

1 Like
12

Yea bro full Crit Gems with Expurgation ES still ahead by slight dps even though my stats weight now indicate to stack mastery especially on mythic+ Hectic Cleave SimC and Raidbots Still giving me VC > Exp
i tried AskMrobot but also same Equation
Guess i have to wait till the Ret paladin developers Fix the issue

13

A small example of how much optimization still has to be done:

5529 dps with normal sims (Zeal Sera FR)
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uGoBD7BELqoccgUFfo2gzK

5610 dps with custom script (Zeal Sera FR)
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eZfBKoZREoibXyVo4rBczD

5582 dps with normal sims (ES Sera FR)
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7sApcxpJdtLky1fHRCHs7u

5634 dps with custom script (ES Sera FR)
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w8zU6fAa3qUESLVB617eRz

5610 (Zeal) vs 5634 (ES) isn’t a noticeable difference anymore :slight_smile:

1 Like
14

Virtuous Command fixed now btw.

15

Did you check blood mallet
the infographic of Ret conduit changed and Expurgation is way ahead even a 200 ilvl conduit better than a 213 VC

16

Didn’t check Bloodmallet before so cant argue about that.
But it sims less now. With your profile and updated APL it was 4.8% of your total damage before, now its 4.2% of total damage. A 40 dps loss.

Your sims look like this now.
(VC)
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/94RSNvfcC3AhmodqufqA4x/simc
(Exp)
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/owFVZyk3xf1cTokRrhTo2M/simc

But Exp is 100% an up for SW/Mad Paragon.

1 Like
17

So Now Mj is ahead than Mad paragon.
did u enchant the weapon with shaded sharpening stone?

18

temporary_enchant=“main_hand:shaded_sharpening_stone”

MJ is ahead with Sera/FR yes. I think the difference isn’t noticeable with your haste rating though. MJ is a little “bugged” on live sims, causing a weird burst rotation like ES > Consecration > CS > CS > AW > FR …

But you can experiment by yourself using this profile (not live yet).
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5iTDPoGmFfYcG4xByAi2Jn
Open Raw Input and copy or change talents/items etc.

19

the problem is my Mj is ring not wrist and it’s givine me -70 dps low
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vkAQ2r4qhZ1zHibfRdgu8B/simc
while Mad paragon is still ahead
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pqgKsPiaBa8jGGKrN1kUjF/simc)

20

You used the current profile which is not optimized for MJ.

MJ
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xfXDR7iKAP2HfJDv9QSPLV/simc
MP
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xd1fBArRd5pzGnjiYC9yzT/simc

This is with Expurgation:
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/51685DrQvQcFfVRuXsQjUa/simc
Ohttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sCnTqcNoySEcWbcQFBjSYn/simc

Btw just ran some sims with the new FV legendary and ES/Sera/FR. Its doing +286 compared to the old one and +200 more than MJ currently does plus pala becomes some semi ranged dps. I don’t think these 15% more damage on TV will go live.