Ret Paladin - automatic build VS Templar Strike and more

Good evening, I know that the European forum is much less frequented but I hope that my words can reach the devs <3

With the arrival of Undermine and the consequent Class Tuning underway it is the right time for some feedback. I would like to focus on the “foundations” on which the Ret paladin is based, introduced in Dragonflight and now refined in TWW.

I appreciate that now in the talents of the Ret pala there are two builds:

The first, automatic, focused on the talent “crusading strikes” that makes the historic basic ability Crusader Strike passive (which is now very popular due to its extreme simplicity and passivity in every gameplay mechanic)

And the second focused on the talent “Templar Strikes” that replaces and greatly improves Crusader Strike and allows a gameplay much closer to the classic gameplay that the Ret paladin has always had since the Holy Powers were introduced in Cataclysm (I actively play ret pala since Tbc)

With this premise, let’s get to the point! Currently the so-called automatic build is the choice of most players, nothing against this thing, but I find it unfair that the two possible builds are not balanced between them (even though in TWW there have been big improvements on Templar Strikes) specifically I’m not talking about the specific damage of these two “Crusader” spells but of the gameplay and the synergies that emerge with the rest of the talents.

The gameplay of the automatic build is built around a spam of the spell “Blade of Justice” thanks to the resets of “Art of War” super facilitated by “Improved Blade of Justice” and “Zealot’s Fervor” (now at 40%). So far nothing wrong, it’s right that a gameplay like this exists, the real problem in my opinion is that especially in M+ and therefore in Aoe such an huge spam of “Blade of Justice” creates too much difference between the two possible base builds of the ret pala (and I think it’s right that they can both live fully both!)
While the Templar Strikes Build gameplay favors a more balanced use between all its “Holy Builders” and therefore a lesser use of “Blade of Justice” in favor of Templar Strikes itself and its mechanic of double use within 5 seconds.

The talent that in my opinion creates the greatest imbalance between the two builds is precisely “Blade of Vengeance” which reads like this:

Blade of Vengeance
Talent
Requires Paladin
Blade of Justice now hits nearby enemies for (117.039% of Attack power) Holy damage.

Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

and here is the “culprit” the part that says “Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.” which implies that it still HITS ALL TARGETS, even if at reduced damage and applies the Expurgation effect to each of them.
While the AOE damage that Templar Strikes is capable of producing thanks to “Blessed Champion” is +4 targets and therefore a total HARD CAP of 5 targets, and relative application of the Templar Strikes (DOT) on 5 targets.
This implies that a build that favors a Blade of Justice spam (about 2 and a half times more!) will have a clear advantage in M+ situations due to the Uncapped nature of the direct hit and the application of Expurgation.

How to solve? In my opinion it could help in the balance introducing a few things:

  1. Hard cap on Blade of Vengeance, 5 targets? 6? 8?

to combine with

  1. increase the damage of the Templar Strikes Dot (but not too much so as not to give it an excessive advantage in Single Target but to balance it with Expurgation)

Furthermore

  1. Consider a decrease in the effectiveness of “Zealot’s Fervor” (like 20-30% instead of 40%) so as to have to require a minimum Haste amount a little higher than now (finding that the automatic build still works even at very very very low haste levels is ridiculous)

with changes like that in my opinion the effect would be to leave the two playstyles unchanged but that the difference between a Blade of Justice spam playstyle or a Blade + Templar Strikes style would be completely similar and more balanced in terms of damage output Overall

Edit:

  1. If we don’t want to touch the new uncapped nature of Blade of Justice, let’s make Expurgation apply to max 5 targets, like the talent “Holy Flame” does (and maybe that would be more balanced compared to its competitor talent “Judgment of Justice”?)

Edit2:

  1. Do we want to keep Blade of Justice and its Dot uncapped? I’m fine with that, but that would mean that the only way to balance the two builds would be a “nerf to the ground” of Crusading Strike’s raw damage.

That would probably be the most sensible and least impactful thing to do, actually

Another equally important factor that facilitates the advantage of the automatic build over Templar Strikes Bild lies in the arrangement of talents.

Automatic build is closely tied to spending 2 talent points on Zealot’s Fervor while Templar Strikes is closely tied to spending 2 talent points on “Heart of the Crusader”, so both builds must spend these 2 talents in different places to function correctly.

However, this implies a clear advantage of the automatic build in being able to access the talents of the sixth row in the right area of ​​the tree!!
The mere position of “Zealot’s Fervor” directly links to the fundamental node of choice talents Blade of Vengeance/Holy Flame!
The Templar Strikes Build is forced to SPEND ONE MORE TALENT POINT to be able to access it, so we are forced to choose whether to go through “Rush of Light” or the node “Vanguard’s Momentum/Sanctify”… (instead of taking something stronger like “Blades of Light”…)

How to solve?

  1. Move “Zealot’s Fervor” to a mirror position of “Heart of the Crusader” by modifying the talent grid

  2. Or for example, swap the position of the talent node “Vanguard’s Momentum/Sanctify” (or “Rush of Light”) with a talent of a more fundamental nature for the Ret Pala such as “Hightlord’s Wrath”

I think that regardless of personal tastes, a great job has been done both in Dragonflight and in TWW to create and improve these two basic builds on the Holy Power generators and managing to give them two different and distinct natures (one more passive, full of auto proc and with a style more similar to a Sham Enha and the other much more classic for a paladin with full control of the holy power and the various procs)
But it is really bad that in front of this beautiful concept there are the details that I have listed above that make the choice of the majority of players fall on a single build and that many of the iterations and various changes have only made one build easier than another.

I hope that my suggestions can be constructive <3

May the Light be with you

PS.
with the automatic build the combo “Crusading Strike” + “Blessed Champion” means that if you choose in the class talent branch “Seal of the Crusader”, (talent that has recently been transformed from an additional melee damage and with blessed champion therefore an additional melee damage on 5 targets, which was a nice niche aoe interaction; to an additional healing on 1 ally, also a nice idea) it happens however that if you hit multiple targets the healing is Applied up to x5 times on the same ally! With the change from damage to healing it has not lost its “multiple hit” nature… given the nerf it has received (or still has to receive?) this additional healing of 50% makes me think that this multiple application effect is unwanted… this obviously does not happen if you choose Templar Strikes… here is another point of non-balance between the two specs… even in the small additional healing…

NO!

We need less AoE caps, not more! the fact that retri isn’t AoE capped is what makes it fun.

In my opinion there is nothing fun and above all worthy in continuing to press a single button continuously that does practically EVERYTHING hits everyone in uncapped mode, applies the dot to EVERYONE leaves the consecration on the ground (another uncapped damage but this is fair enough) and in itself does excellent damage both single target and especially on 5 targets, all with a single button that spams continuously about every 3 seconds… Do the other classes have something remotely similar? NO

If we don’t want to touch the new uncapped nature of Blade of Justice, let’s make Expurgation apply to max 5 targets, like the talent “Holy Flame” does (and maybe that would be more balanced compared to its competitor talent “Judgment of Justice”?)

Or another idea let’s modify Blessed champion so as to divide it into two talents and separate judgment from Crusader strike aoe so as to be able to tune them better? and combine the Soft cap effect to 5 both on Blade of justice (so as now) with Crusading/Templar Strikes since in the two spells they are “competitors”??

Ret Pala has plenty of uncapped Aoe damage: Divine Storm, Wake of Ashes, Consecration, Empyrean hammer Crit, Searing Light, Final Reckoning (which would be nice to be able to reuse)… don’t they seem more than enough to you? Do we want more uncapped ones?? -.-

Then go play Raid. AoE cap was the worst they did, and it’s actually fun to play like this. Pressing the buttons feels good.

Maybe I didn’t explain myself.
My suggestions don’t go in the direction of changing the “feelings” of pressing the rotation using the automatic Build, no that’s fine.

My post wants to go in the direction of Tuning and better balancing between the two possible paladin builds between them, now one overwhelms the other (even if only slightly) and it’s a big shame like that

If we talk about Feelings, the best vibes (by far!) are given to me by the build with the Templar Strikes (I’ve been playing Ret paladin for 17 years) Degustibus!

I find it more beautiful and more successful on the part of Blizzard if it manages to satisfy the palate of all ret paladins, and what better goal if it managed to put on the plate 2 builds perfectly balanced between them?

I’m okay with balancing the builds to be mostly flavor, but that should be done without making the other playstyle feel less good because of an AoE cap.

Well, Blade’s AOE limit would apply to all builds anyway…

Do we want to keep Blade of Justice and its Dot uncapped? I’m fine with that, but that would mean that the only way to balance the two builds would be a “nerf to the ground” of Crusading Strike’s raw damage.

That would probably be the most sensible and least impactful thing to do, actually

I’ll add it to the main post