Yes!
the same as with prots at the moment. the changes are so ridiculous and brainless and absurd that not even a psychiatrist can help here.
i look at the last patch notes for other classes and i am speechless. that is such a sick nonsense!
and we only see round numbers like 15% here and there… but never something like 14%, 12.2% etc. so it should be obvious how “balance” is painted there.
Hunter is for sure a pure “egoistic” dps just like warlocks, DKs, warriors, and soon Devokers, since blizzard probably doesn’t want them to be budget augmentation. However, all dps classes seem to be somewhat “homogenized” output-wise.
I think doing a harder division now between “carry” and “support” dps would be rly nice. Turning some obvious supports like enhance into supports and stuff like elemental into carry would be a smart decision. Maybe they should do the same with priests and rework disc into a support dps and have shadow priest be a more damage-oriented carry with less utility.
For Paladins specifically though I think making ret more of a pure damage spec and removing some off-healing would br the right decision, but I think Paladins could benefit from a 4th void-themed support spec though that uses this “space”-void theme from sarkareth. (I saw a video about that on youtube lol)… I think letting ret be a pure dps spec would be smart, because they probably the best designed spec in the game overall, and hence also the most played.
I really wish that in a future patch (being realistic earliest in 11.0) Retribution would be moved to “Support” spec slot with Augmentation and hopefully other specializations.
Sure it would suck to lose the only DPS spec Paladins have, but Protection does exceptionally well in world content, so questing wouldn’t be an issue.
The main issue with Retri’s supporting is that it does not increase anyones damage it is purely defensive utility, so it will never be in that high of a demand
Things like this will never happen.
Imagine going to bed as a ret paladin main and enjoying the spec and the next day you wake up and you’ve been recrafted into a support role.
Talk about a non starter of an idea.
As someone who has played Shadow Priest for multiple expansions having huge design changes that completely transform the class seems more like a norm than staying put.
That is not what Ret paladins would want in general and most people would very much disagree with you on it.
This would not be liked in either PvE or PvP in general.
I‘m pretty new at retri, played it a bit to the end of shadowlands and started like 2-3 months ago again.
This class is super fun and to be honest I don’t get why so much people cry about the damage.
Like retri does crasy dmg in Keys and brings so much utility to the group.
I‘m over 3k and I’m not really struggling coming into random 23er keys cuz retri are welcome.
Of course there is this „god comp“ but I ensure everyone retri is fine.
He could get some singletarget buffs for sure but he is doing fine imo.
It’s funny when i have purple log(94.4) on mythic and warlock casually outdamages me with his blue log.
I rly don’t see warrior or a lock as a support class in any way.
Sure lock can give a health stone and warrior got like commanding shout?
Paladin on the other hand got BoP, BoF, and LoH, Cleans. Now that is a Support kit!
I’m not sure how that’s relevant to what I said a month ago (I had to go back and look at the comment you replied to), but OK.
My mistake. I replyed to the wrong person.
BoP 5min cooldown only physical damage immunity great when it is good but it is very rarely any good for raids and in M+ it has so long of a cooldown that it really depends on what the dungeon is.
Can not be used on the tank in most cases and most damage going out to people is not physical damage.
BoF this one is good however most specs in the game has ways to get out of things that BoF works on.
LoH is still a 10min cooldown (baseline) even at 7min cooldown it is to heavy.
Cleanse is good when it is good but many classes have this.
You might feel like it is a support kit yet you forget to understand how little this kit can actually be used in a dungeon or a raid encounter.
In a raid encounter that is 1 use of BoP or LoH total over the whole fight in a dungeon it is 3-4 or 6-8 if you use it on cooldown yet using BoP on cooldown is not going to be very useful.
All the utility you mentioned is also Single target and very long cooldowns.
I would not personally classify any of the 3 mentioned as support in anyway but as you listed some stuff you need to understand the issues with just listing stuff.
If you think Ret has the toolkit to be a support spec then a crap load of specs have the toolkit to be support.
Yeah, i totally agree with you.
But i think paladins are more of a support class then a warior but not in comparison to aug evoker.
And yet in a raid setting Warrior is far more of a support than Ret paladin at least historically.
Commanding shout has been used to power through challenging encounters, while you have never brought ret paladin for the utility on hard encounters (at least not as i can think of)
Warriors have been stacked for the utility they bring to the raid Ret paladin has not had this happen.
But also to be fair here warriors has also been in general doing quite a lot of damage.
Yupp, what you are saying is true but this is another thing. Just because ppl bring them for a special utility dosent mean that the spec is a hybrid support.
Do you think/feel that warriors kit is more support’ish then a ret paladin?
No i do not, that does not change that warriors have been used in raids for there supportive ability while Ret has not.
And no i would not classify any of them as hybrid support or support.
Both are hybrid classes though.
Ret “support” stagnated since vanilla, not a single tool mentioned in this post is something that has been added since then.
All of these we had since vanilla and only real new addition is Spellwarding pvp talent that hardly counts as its originally a prot talent oh and did i mention PVP talent?
Over the years other classes have gotten new defensives, self heals etc and every time they get those it diminishes the use of ours. Think of it the same way auto crit talents diminishes the worth of crit stat.
Meanwhile what do we have outside pure dmg? We dont bring a debuff, buff, CC etc, hell we hardly even bring a relaible slow.
Our role is watered down to be the most basic DPS there is with the goal to be middle of the pack.
This can be seen with pvp talents aswell like 2% dmg for 6 sec, 2% max health on second judgment, 1.1 sec casting spell AS A MELEE for a 4 sec debuff, 2 talents for group emancipate on long CD (one of them includes 30% dmg reduction for 6 sec on 5 min CD).
Meanwhile: Locks, lets test this large area enemy group teleport that can tip a game if used right… for fun!!
There is no testing on Ret, no new ideas, no experiment outside just dmg while our tools withered away and died a decade ago.
Sadly you are right about this, Last time it happened was Legion where you had spell that did dmg based on your missing health so on purpose you would not use deffs in pvp and since bubble was not on global cd back then you could pop it even on 5% hp and Oneshot Someone with no counter pretty much haha. Players who knew whats up were basicaly never bursting you/trying to damage you while this lasted. And basicaly it was Like Bluff in poker game, I did not even played that talent for example as There was no way They would know i do not have it, And Could Basicaly Do my thing without pressure on me. As nobody wanted to gamble losing game/betting on if the pala has it selected. But in BGs it was so much fun, with Crit you could oneshot 2-3 people at the same time sometimes haha.
Im with you on this, totally!
What are you saying man,this is nonsense,im plasting with my tank ! And if i see ret i inv him as a blaster.