I’m not talking about pvp as I haven’t touched it for a while. For sure I obliterate most of the people that try to jump me in world pvp but I can hardly call that pvp anyway.
As for pve, I’m just stating the facts. Tuning ain’t gonna do much if they toolkit and playstyle doesn’t change. The fact remains that ret suffers from the same weaknesses for a while now both on its damage profile and its toolkit.
As for 9.1, it might or might not bring some tuning but you gotta remember that in the end we compete with everyone else. So any tuning in order to matter it must be in comparison to every other spec out there.
As for being negative, maybe I’m just pessimistic because of the history of ret tuning so far…
Ret is realy good for pve Like if you are not doing top 100 Raid progress it doest not matter what you play. People who have to reroll to fotm are a joke i play ret as main since Early Wotlk and i will never stop.
Well, im sutck at 197 ilvl and no1 will take me in any kind of m+ key… even do i do good dps for my ilvl and i know the dungeons, playng an alt is so trash…
The same conduits just refresh their wq duration (tank ones also LOL) and not a single weapon in sight done like 5 +10 mythic keys with a friend no decent loot im stil lrocking my 184 ilvl weapon
Ye sure, so you only play fotm classes right? I play ret no matter what if it is OP currently in pvp etc it just is, im not fotm player.I main ret since early Wotlk. Ret has many utility in pve- bop,sac, freedom, Loh- i saved tanks so many tiems with this i cant even count that number. You have bubble to cheese mechanics. Like it is best melee dps in my opinion DH was best when it had leech based immortality and would need 0 heals in m+ or raid.
Nope, I have been playing 2 classes on the same time from cata to Wod, which were warrior and paladin. When legion came, I dropped the warrior because I could not find enough time to play 2 chars on the same time (And ngl, my grandpa was fighting cancer so I had to take my grandma every single day to see him for 6 months) and BFA even pushed for more alt hostilities. I had no issues up to bfa because when I did purple parses, I was outdpsing meta specs. So I didn’t care aboot playing ret since parses color were following an order.
Then 8.2 came. For the first time in a decade, I have been benched because I played ret on Gorgonzola, since I could either do good St damages but I sucked at adds or I could obliterate adds at the cost of st Damages. I was benched in favor of a DH.
After, on the 6th boss, I have done a 75 parse and I have been obliterated by Grey locks. That killed my will to play ret. I’m not asking to be el numéro uno, I’m just asking for respecting the fact that purple parses should out dps Grey parses.
During legion, one of my tank sucked, so loh was quite useful. But ever since, I only played with competent tanks and I ended up not using on tanks anymore. I refuse to use loh on slackers because In my culture, mistakes should be punished, therefore slacking should be paid.
The issues with ret utility spells is that they’re good at cheesing mechanics when those mechanics are linked with either physical immune or freedom, but that does not happen quite often. If anything, I do think ret should and prot should also be given AM, since utility spells are now shared class wide, besides the raid wide CD…
Aboot sac, I don’t like it. I’d be fine if the glyph has been merged with that spell, ie sac becomes an external CD without dealing damages to me.
That’s the best perk ret has to offer. But sadly, mage and hunter also provide that and are ranged, therefore better.
In terms of defensive tools, I still think SoV should be out and we should be getting divine protection instead. I dislike a defensive spell being an offensive CD.
In terms of melee, ret is not the best, because dk exists. Ret is a wheelchair spec compared to DH (Why the hell on hearth is divine steed CD 45s?)
I think ret paladin is more than capable in reaching beyond 15+ but I’m not 100% if they are able to compete with the strongest DPS when it comes to a +20 dungeon.
Ret’s output and damages profile is not ret’s main issue in m+ but rather its kit :
-No CR
-Good St stun but no baseline reliable aoe stun
-No ranged interrupt
-bop helps removing necrotic stacks but you can’t use that on tanks
-Wog has value during grievous weeks
-No lust
It’s just that ret’s tool kit is less reliable than mage’s and moonkin’s kit. If bop allowed to cheese more mechanics AND if Holy was nerfed to the ground, maybe ret could get into that sweet spot.
You seem to forget that retribution doesn’t just consist in being top DPS, there is a reason why Paladin is known as a hybrid class because they are not designed to just deal damage, but also offer support in the sense of keeping your friendlies alive by off-healing, freeing them from rooting / slows and in removing any poison and diseases and they excel in Theatre of Pain, Plaguefall, De other side and Necrotic Wake since they can aoe stun hordes of undeads, and they can also fear significant strong undead/aberration units for example the Shades that spawns right after you kill an NPC.
I do forget that and the reason is that mage is a pure dps class that gets to bring a lot of cool stuff. I’m not talking aboot lust, but things like slows, mass root alongside both offensensive and defensive dispells.
I’d be fine with ret being less efficient at dealing damages than pure dps classes if pure dps classes get to loose a great portion of their toolkit.
Also, I don’t like the argument of offhealing, because I have been in guilds in which there were bad healers so we had to resort on hybrid off healing. In my mind, if we have to resort to that, then it means it’s a healing problem rather than other people being.
And if we’re getting into hybrid arguments, then why are moonkin and elem allowed to pump a lot of damages as hybrid?
Boomkins only do excessive damage because their covenant allows it, also due to the convenience of dealing damage from afar and also supports the team with utilities, while a retribution paladin has to move in and engage in melee combat, elemental shaman is similar to boomkin, they bring a lot of burst damage plus BL to the team and a consistent tool-kits that can provide anti-fear or interrupts.
There has not been a hybrid tax from at least wrath my dude.
This is not disputable this is a fact.
You underestimate the utility toolkit and off healing that elemental can bring.
This is sort of right but also not really you can say the same thing about the 1min build for ret or venthyr for holy or prot for dps.
You also forget that druid has very stupid strong utility.
Both Shaman and Druid has dispells themselves Both can heal (druid even have the ability to boost their hps numbers via heart of the wild)
They both have aoe knockback.
They both have a button that can tank for the tank to deal with hard pulls.
There is far more that is more individual to each one.
You say you are aware yet you use that as an argument for what reason?
If you know this then what you said is kinda irrelevant a none argument if you did not know then it would be fine but when you say you do know then there is nothing to argue about so why did you bring up the hybrid idea in the first place?
Why are you getting so defensive? I was stating the fact that a retribution paladin is capable of providing useful toolkits in situational events, I even explained that retributions excel especially against undead and aberration type creatures.
If you think Paladins, Shamans and Druids aren’t classified as hybrids that is fine, I was simply putting my opinions regarding retribution paladins hence this is what the topic is all about and I’m simply stating my thoughts about what is like to play retribution in my perspective in mythic dungeons and in their usefulness in specific dungeons.
That is not defensive that is asking you why you are bringing up something that is factually just wrong.
Ok i hope i do not need to make a history lesson here short of it is that,
Yes they are hybrids but there is no hybrid tax meaning the damage they do is the same as a pure dps spec. (also any class with a tank or a healing spec is classified as hybrids)
You see the utility you mentioned for ret is done better by other classes like boomkin or elemental, and they have more and better utility on top of that.
Yes ret has utility that when it is good is very good (cooldowns making it not as good as many other things but that is not something i take into consideration right now)
But that does not change that for m+ the utility that ret brings is subpar compared to quite a lot of others.
There is also that part that any of the utility you as a ret bring so does a holy or prot paladin.
You also would prefer not to use fear effects a whole lot of the time if you can avoid it because of how fear easily chain pulls.
And the frontal cone stun is ok but nothing special Ele shaman have totem for propper aoe stun and moonkin can aoe root or just typhoon them away or drop ursol vortex to keep them there.
And on dispelling poison, moonkin can do the same and they can dispel curse effects and they got enrage dispel enemy, but they got bad interrupt.
Shaman can dispel curse can dispel magic on enemy, has a shorter then melee interrupt cooldown.
And for healing they do not sacrifice total damage over the encounter to heal unlike what a WoG would be, a wog costs a lot more than people seem to realize.
I am not even going into the toolkits and talents propper.