Hey
How am I supposed to compete against other plate-classes if I bring nothing unique to the raid?
Warriors can shout to buff the whole raid and save the whole raid with a temp hp buff, and have the best damage
DKs can pull monsters in and and put up defensive bubbles for the whole raid
We can break some mechanics with some defensive buffs for a single target
It makes no sense?
You can save a DPS, Healer or Tank’s life from near death by simply giving him Lay of Hand, or simply off-healing, if you play your cards correctly, you can do insane burst aoe damage on specific bosses, you can provide defensive tools like Blessing of Sacrifice on the tank, healer or DPS that is suffering most damage, and also providing Blessing on Protection to DPS or Healers being nuked by melee (physical damage) ** never put it on the tank tho**
That is what I can come up with on terms of what Paladin can provide in a raiding situation.
I think crying about ur spec loudly enough to keep everyone else in the raid awake is a pretty noble role to play
The problem with that is that HOLY paladin have the same deff toolkit as ret so it is useless to bring ret into group 
You can be ret paladin in ordinary guilds cause there people don’t care about your class and spec you can clear raids easily
but the higher you go the worst it become
Why not list the tools you have instead of crying about the ones others have?
What melee provides 3% DR to everyone?
Holy paladin if that is in your group is the one who brings this because of AM.
If you have prot paladin they bring it.
The only way Ret brings it is if you have no holy or prot paladins in the raid.
Thats like saying death grip isn’t a frost dk utility because blood brings it.
No it is not in any way comparable.
As a second grip when grip is good is almost always just really good.
If you had used a second monk because of the physical debuff that would have been a better example.
The 3% DR is dead it is not worth anything extra if you have a second paladin in the group.
And i know you know this already.
A second grip on the other hand can be very useful.
Then you bring an instant heal to full for someone.
You bring a physical damage immunity to an raid member.
You bring a root break for someone.
You bring an external damage reduction for someone.
You also have a full immunity which is super useful for mechanics cheese.
That is a better list.
But let’s go though it.
lay on hands 1 time a fight it is great if you get to use it at a good point usually it is sort of not worth it because it heals someone who would be healed by a healer anyway.
BoP 5min cooldown means it is 1 time a fight kind of deal it is great when you can use it most boss abilities however are magic based.
BoF this is great but there are a lot of classes that can do this themselves, if less people had this ability it would be really good many places.
BoSac (new to this expansion) is really good no doubt about that but it being 1 person makes it not as useful in different scenarios compared to aoe things like Darkness from dh. (for raiding)
Bubble is great but 5min cooldown unless talented (making it 3.5min) Makes it difficult to immune cheese much of anything.
There are several classes with immunity that works better and has a shorter cooldown that would be taken in a raid setting before paladin would be taken to cheese mechanics.
Especially because of the lack of movement ability combined with the cooldown here.
The big difference is that you would not single out paladins and stack them to cheese a mechanic even though you might use the ones you have in your group already to do it unlike other classes that you might get in to the raid specifically for the cheese.
Overall when the things are useful they are great but most of the time there are other ways of doing the exact same thing so you would not bring a paladin because they have this you might use what they have when you already have one in the group and that is great.
Ret pala utility is in a stagnated state. Most of the tools we have today are tools we had since day one, didnt get rets a spot back then, doesn’t now. Some patches we do great dmg and we get spots but most of the time we do low to mediocre dmg and new posts like these gets made and the same old “plate bubble AND heals” kind response. Ret utility is not ret specific nor has it evolved to any bigger degree across the expansions.
I feel like we get never invited to any raids because our damage’s not high eneogh
Ret have what is probably the best burst dps in the game. And as @Sunwalker said we have great offhealing
Offhealing in raid is not something that happens in raids very often at all.
Very rarely has blizzard made bosses that require off healing from dps players.
Basically, you do not bring a ret paladin for the ability to off heal it just is not a factor at all whatsoever you rather bring another healer if you need more healing, especially with healers doing so much dps as they do now.
Using globals on healing means you are not dpsing you know why you are taken to the raid in the first place.
I would also question about having one of the best bursts in the game, it is good but i doubt it is even one of the best.
While i do not know how it is right now it for sure was not the case for the rest of shadowlands.
I lol’ed hard
?
It has, either you are playing wrong or everyone I play with in m+ sucks.
Retri pala is gear dependent it means u need to have more gear with higher ilvl to compete in dps
Retribution have a pretty good burst not as high as mage or hunter but with 2 tier set the sustain dmg is there and with double legos u’ll see the difference
You ever seen unholy dk burst?
No I haven’t
Me neither, not in a long time.
You mean back in the days?