Retribution out of mana - make WoG cost zero mana


My group is heavily relying on my support blessings, cleanses and heals.

In M+ 18+ I often find myself out of mana in longer fights where I need to offheal.
Also if I’m combat ressed I cannot survive for long because I’m out of mana in seconds.

I play paladin since Vanilla and this is my main ever since. This mana issue is taking the fun out of the game for me. If you don’t have this issue maybe your group isn’t noob enough and doesn’t rely on you for support as much.

Many years ago this was still a thing but seeing now classes like mage, warlock, priest, mana classes, not being out of mana while my holy power retribution paladin always out of mana makes me kind of wondering what’s going on with this class design?!

I must carry drinks as a retribution paladin lately while my mage is never drinking mana since Draenor :joy:

I’m already thinking about rerolling other support DPS just because of this mana issue but nothing even comes close to paladin thanks to the blessings so yeah …

Please Blizzard, my group needs my heals.
Let at least WoG cost only holy power and zero mana.

Thank you

1 Like

No offense mate but if you need to offheal that much on a +18 then the problem either is with your healer or with your teammates (not to mention that it also lowers your DPS) Most heal specs should have no problem keeping a group alive on a +18.
I don’t like the WoG cost too, especially since they added it to Holy as well but it is what it is.

WoG less, I can assure you its not needed.

There aren’t many logs of your M+ but here is one.

You cast WoG 34 times. I doubt many of them really made a difference. You pressed your divine protection 3 times. :thinking:

In the trash around the first boss and including the first boss you cast I think 12 on yourself. Your team mates didn’t heal themselves and didn’t die. Trust the healer to do their job. As an example after the shared boss smash everyone is low. Shrug? No incoming damage for a while so who cares. I’d bet money that you WoG’d in a kneejerk reaction to that.

Another view is that if you spent that holy power on actually killing the boss which is your main job, the fight would be shorter.

It’s not meant to be brutal criticism and its nice when people use their utility to help but if you’re constantly oom’ing its a sign you’re doing it too much.

Ok are we now going full circle here on what a Rets role is here? The point that we can offheal in raids, dungeons and even pvp has been hammered down for 2 decades as to why we cant get anything new for the class what so ever. And when they even limit how much of it we can do you ppl now go

“well you shouldnt even heal in the first place cuz you are a dps hur dur!”

YHEA… you dont freaking say???

So now hand over the other tools every other melee class has, there is about 5 of them we lack!


Said nobody, learn to read (hur dur).

The fact that Ret can off heal doesn’t justify that it should. That’s the healer’s job. Sure, a Lay on Hands or BoP or 1-2 WoG every now and then is fine to help out the healer but to spend most of your resources on healing as a DPS? Sorry not sorry, but that’s a waste.

It also matter what kind of damage that needds to be healed are we talking about here (avoidable or not). On higher keys (and mind you, +18 is really not that high) it is also the responsibility of the DPS to pop defensives in certain situations (ie. unavoidable damage during boss fights, like Yalnu’s [ EB last boss] shockwave) so they have an easier time to survive.

Nobody idd

I agree with this as i think Ret offhealing is badly designed for several reasons.
1 There are healers, its what they do.
2 Every other class in game has both selfhealing and deff CDs.
3 For a Ret to be effective offhealing both of the above have failed at their job making Ret do less at his job.

So tell me, what was the point of limiting the healing of a Ret? In what area was this overly abused that it needed a nerf? Were there droves of Rets like the guy above that spammed it in dungeons that it became a major problem?

I believe the answer comes from the times where folks run a 4 DPS 1 Tank setup on M+ and Blizzard did this to enforce the “holy trinity” again (given that aug entered the scene it’s no longer a trinity but hey).

That being said, the main “issue” remains the same. As a Ret your job is to kill stuff and not healing others. “Unlimited” or not.

This was an actuall issue in high keys? Or just ppl that boosted others in low keys where it really shouldnt matter as id assume the boosters were all overgeared to begin with?

Again i agree with this, my issue is that we got nothing while they nerfed it for a non issue. As it also effects pvp that already has our selfhealing in a fairly dire sittuation.

I qualified the statement in multiple ways but nuance is too hard for you isn’t it?

It was Zmok and his group one guy from that group made his own group and 2 other groups in the top 5000 keys that made blizzard hammer all the mana costs on these things.
a Whooping 4 groups was doing it. at 2-4key levels below the max.
Even one of the groups who did do it changed to a healer and did 2 levels higher keys in the same week.
It was something to do for the people with maxed out gear and that had time to do it.

Honestly. I didnt even notice it had a mana cost. Between Healing Hands talent and the fact that Im DPS not healer. Im not firing off that many.

All for support being a core part of pally, BoS, BoF, BoP, LoH, WoG, dispells. All really really important parts of a pally playstyle. but if you are firing off so many heals that you are OOMing reguarly, then it sounds like your healer might be undergeared or doing something wrong.

I did a +18 & +20 tonight with my healer friend. Rest of the group was PUG. In the 18 we had a hyper DH who pulled way too much and I fired off the odd heal to help, but for the most part focused on what I was doing. Same for the 20, Helped with one Bursting wave, but other than that, focused on the pull. Of course BoF and BoS were used nearly on CD, and LoH and BoP were ready to go if needed, but its Off-heals and support, not second healer. Even in the raid with the adds that need healing, i’ll fire off quite a bit to help, but I dont think ive ever OOMed, at least not from WoG

So a nerf made aimed at what, 2 ppl that took the whole spec? Isent the problem more about M+ core design atm?

Its leaning more and more towards one shots that cant be healed while dmg from general stuff can be mannaged with selfhealing from the tanks and all other classes, supported by ret healing.

Its blizzard themself that are constantly chipping away a healers role.

Nuance? Deja, all you said in your rant was “heal less”, what nuance is there to take here?

You dont do nuance, you arent even a blunt instrument in what you say, you are a blunt object.

All i did was being a bit hyperbolic when i said “Dont heal at all” and as usual you went over the roof with insults because thats who you are on the forums. Comment to others in a very condescending tone and when replied to throw in some insults. Usualy not adding anything to the discussion.

Thank you all for your informative and kind replies. I see some of you are really top tier players … we’re not, but we’re having fun.

Explainer: we’re a group of older players (50+) and we’re playing in the same team since the M+ system was introduced (2017 or so).

Our group healer is an elder lady, who’s only clicking her spells on the screen after mouse selecting the player to heal - she’s using some addons but she cannot move out of the danger and also heal - the new dungeons are almost impossible for her unfortunately.
She’s playing holy priest just because she’s spamming in the key moments her AOE heals in the first 2 minutes of the fight until oom or dead. In like 15+ years she only played holy priest.

In certain scenarios it is enough, but not always. She cannot use her defensive cd’s efficiently so in many fights we need to actually keep her alive. Me and the tank I mean - we’re actually helping her healer role. We often actually have everyone surviving on its own and heal the priest :slight_smile: to complete the dungeon with a smile.

Before DF this wasn’t an issue. We were doing our mid tier keys (as stated above 18-20 keys are quite doable by everyone with enough gear and some decent skills - we’re all playing since vanilla). Before DF I was able to always WoG, spending (at the expense of some DPS ofc) the holy power to help the priest.

So why don’t I play with someone else ? We’re all family - yes, in real life, playing from different countries, and WoW is actually our place to meet, talk on discord and do some keys for fun while talking.

I didn’t understand why Blizzard had to nerf the WoG healing to the point it’s unsustainable in a mid level key… was it abused in PvP ?

Yes, we’re doing 15-16 M+ with ease, but that’s not the point. It’s the fun of trying higher keys that is also driving us.

I can offheal with ease, since I used to main holy pally for many expansions, in our raid setups - it is my second nature in wow to check on my group and help whenever it’s needed. Now our elderly guild is really small, turned into a social guild since so many left WoW and we’re only doing some M+ keys.

Again, thank you for your feedback … some also went so far to even checking the logs … wow !!! thanks so much ! I actually never do it myself :smiley:

a big /hug to all of you

Just please learn to read.

I actually showed that his heals weren’t even well considered with logs. If all you take from that is it was a rant that said “heal less” then :man_facepalming:

I understand changing habits can be hard but this shouldn’t be beyond anybody…

Make 2 macros

/cast [@mouseover, help, nodead]Holy Word: Serenity

/cast [@mouseover, help, nodead]Flash Heal

Bind them to very easy to use buttons. Hover over the mouse frame and press the appropriate button.

Her healing will now probably be about 50% more efficient because the 2 biggest heals can now be done by hovering the mouse over the frame and pressing a button.

Also, she was playing disc for that dungeon logged -.-

Opening with an insult, how very Deja of you.

So educate me, what else did you mean other then “heal less”. Cant bother to explain yourself with words other then throwing insults?

So your solution for a clicker is macros that involves using keys? I took those words as she barely uses keyboard at all but what do i know, i cant read!

Again, I qualified the statement with “its not needed” and then went on to explain why, with logs.

After doing all of this, saying you should learn to read isn’t intended as an insult but advice. Afterall, I’ve repeated it many times now but you can’t get past two words which were “heal less” - you’ve repeatedly ignored or failed to comprehend the qualifiers / context that followed.

Again, I qualified with “change is hard but this is a small change”. Or are you implying that learning to press 2 buttons is a bridge too far for anybody? So yea, “you can’t read”. You said it, not me.

I also take exception with the premise that 50 is too old to learn new stuff or ya’know - use a keyboard.



Thats all and it would make a dramatic difference. I put some thought into it, knowing holy priests and where their healing comes from. All you did is say “dey a clicker lol me discredit deja wit dis zinger lol”.

She clicks on the person with her mouse THEN clicks on the spell with her mouse. If she could have pressed a healing spell that she has keybinded already, why hasent she?

Your “solution” changes nothing in that proccess. She doesnt seem to use keybinds at all it seems, to the point that it could be questioned if she even uses the keyboard to move.


And again i ask, what else was there then “heal less”?

It was both your advice and your solution for the OPs sittuation. And with the context of what the OP wrote after does not help him at all.

First off if i tank with my prot paladin noone gets heals of me even if they are low and hell not in an 18+ a healer well played should faceroll that or the dps in the group is dumb