Well i have a screenshot with 200k normal dmg also on a warlock 
imgur. com /IxYBXGw (spaces again)
So yeah it needs nerf thats what i am saying. Or make it do smth else no need for more multipliers on spenders.
More passive dots would be good for sustain dps or buff on crusader strikes.(even thought Cs hirts a lot too)
I am talking pure for pvp cause for pve who cares, more dmg the better.
Yesterday ret was fine on PTR. I saw changes, hopped on PTR and tried them…
I actually cant believe that they just killed ret… WHY??? 2 weeks out and they decided to demolish the well reworked spec… 1 HP BoJ, who wanted that???
It feels awful to play, DoTs became dog, crusading strike as 2nd on details… that tells everything.
Pls fire whoever made this week’s changes and bring back the person who did the ret tree until last week ty.
Buttons - sure
Stacking Modifiers - its worst than live kekw (even more modifiers)
Survivability - nope absolute joke
Maneuverability - 10% speed on judgement kekw
Utility - ye ret aura rework is good
Tell me u are incompetent without telling me u are incompetent 
It looked good - it started to feel good - sun started to rise and sky clearing from the storm clouds - then the world ended xD Actually I was waiting this steam of failure notes to come BUT only 1 week before the patch on monday evening AND 50% more tuning down included. Sooooo if we are here now and we have sooooo many times till the release… welll brace yourself the tuning downs are still coming YEEEEHAAAAAAA !!
New changes appeared on wowhead. Well, what can I say? RIP I guess. Every iteration u guys make, just make it sound worse every time. If I knew from the start that this rework will turn out this bad, I would have stopped myself from getting too excited, to spare me the heartbreak.
I’d take the current live version of ret any day of the week, than to play with that abomination of a spec that you are about to release in 2 weeks. Massive disappointment, bad nerfs, horrible talent reworks, redundant talents for same abilites, meaningless choices, lost class fantasy.
I love how this rework can be tl:dr-ed into 1 simple picture,I’m sure everyone knows about the horse drawing meme,it’s pretty much that,started looking pretty good,the magnum opus was when they teased us with Wings of Liberty,then that never made up in any ptr cycle,then the talents swapped(in some cases for the worst) and now we’re getting into the nerf cycle,basically we’re at the “head of the horse” who looks like it was drawn by a 3 years old in ms paint.Sure,numeric changes come and go,when it comes to dmg,but why nerf divine purpse’s proc chance? Oh well,I’d give the benefit of the doubt since they still have 2 more weeks,but time will tell,it’s just a bummer that this was the time where we got some attention from them,they didn’t listen to feedback and when this hits live,well,we’ll see you in 13.0.Also,their mobily updates were 1 sec on the pony and 10% move speed? bruh…(unbound freedom too I guess,but we’ll still be the slowest melee,atleast dks have 2 grips,cant be slowed aswell and you probably know the rest).
Everyone is focusing on details but you all missing big pickture.
We can build Ret without melee skills, even autoattack have low range WTF.
Ret as a class is DEAD. We have a braindead 3-button spec named “Retribution”.
3-button main rotation spec. Lets rename it to Pleb’ladin of Plebtribution. Ideal class for for peasants.
We were Elites with complex and enjoyable rotation.
This spec may serve as a new champion for League of Legends. Oh w8 my bad, we have 3 button, in LoL you need 4…
With the repeating if “3-button spec” im sure you are certain on your claim. What are those 3 buttons?
How can you spend days into a rework and make it worse than live? Seriously leave the spec unchanged, its going to be even more garbage. Also gz for ret players asking for ptr nerfs, its like asking for less food as a starved person.
God, I though this was the time…
I was actually so excited and ye the Leap that was data mined gave us way to much hope. We actually have to hear it’s not coming from an interview ;s
I had hope in a more stable version of ret for pvp with this rework, but it doesn’t seem the focus is there at all. Freedom/steed is still mandatory, the only difference it feels less painfull to use, but we are still wasting our 2 cds together there. Is that really what the idea here is? Why not just give ret the prot version of steed?
I agree the range on abilities is a fun way to improve our mobility, but once again from a pvp pov I am not sure this is enough.
Are there any changes to pvp talents? pretty much most of them are (off) but also really boring. Idk, what you guys think of some active abilities?
Speed of light, sacred shield and long arm comes to mind.
Cancel that failed rework.
Just leave Ret as it is now on 10.0.5 with those new def/moblity buffs from 10.0.7.
Fixed.
I dno, I like the passive crusader strike auto attacks. I also like 1 min wings and our abilities cleaving. I just think we need 1 more ability to reduce our (infrequent) downtime.
I have to say though, 30 second Execution sentence feels really good on ST.
Current Ret is fun, but I’m personally not a fan of how we feel during our downtime. Outside of wings/Seraphim this spec does not feel good.
Blizzard: we rework ret pala, change tree, adding some QoL with auto-crusade playstyle, I hope you guys excited!
Also Blizzard: hands out bluepost every week till release with ret nerfs making it even worse than live
Time to hop on my warlock, getting weekly buffs till new patch/ those items from 10.1’s raid are screaming for warlocks.
What have you done to BoJ? It was buffed in the latest update, but somehow it does way less damage now…
Dont know how far the tuning is done atm but when testing in ptr it does 5-6k dmg a hit and when changing into Templars Strike it hits for 19k and crits for 40k (second strike is 100% crit). Then add 3-5k AA so they arent tuned at all. (tested only on pvp dummy)
Have checked the ptr a few times and I’m starting to get worried. Seems like the rework fixed some problems with rets and broke some of our existing tools that actually feel good. Also, right now it seems like we’re forced to pick some talents in the earlier parts of the tree so I’m not getting to experiment with the spec as much as I’d like. (sorry this is going to be long)
The good things about the rework -
1- Extra range on our abilities - I think it’s great for both pve and pvp to have that. In pve, Right now ret feels like we’re too melee and if the tank moves mobs 1 yard away we’re unable to connect and do damage. This makes it harder to play ret in pve environment nowadays when there is so many abilities in dodge in both raids and m+ that having our abilities hit from 8 yard range rather than 5 gives us room to breath and move while maintaining uptime on mobs. Also, to be in range for interrupting.
In pvp, having some range for a class with low mobility is great IMO. I’d rather ret plays in a unique rangey way rather than be like warriors. Also, having more range on our abilities allows us to maintain better pressure even if we can’t be in melee range all the time.
2- More defensives - This is both in the form of extra healing and more defensives talents. We needed more defensives in both pve and pvp. In pve, right now it seems like I’m constantly using my SoV and bubble non stop during an m+ run to survive packs while still being able to stick on mobs and do damage. It’s extremely tiring and frustrating to feel like I’m playing on the edge all the time especially with our poor mobility that makes it harder for us to constantly dodge abilities.
In pvp, after the healing and SoV buffs we do feel slightly better in terms of survival (I made a new ret paladin purely for pvp and hit 1950 rating better than I did with this one). However, we’re still behind our classes so giving us divine protection (finally something to press while we’re stunned), a bigger SoV (which gets melted in 2 seconds), better passive healing with CS, sanctified plates and a bigger instant FoL (i’ll be using that over out WoG as I think it’s better and something I can use on myself and teammates).
With all these changes we’ll probably better than most classes in terms of survival but not by much as considering the pace of the game right now. In terms of gameplay one of paladins greatest tools should be their ability to outlast other classes. IMO, this should be one of our strengths.
3- Our rotation - since the legion rework we have been overly reliant on burst and our rotation being weak as hell. Legion was the best irritation of the modern ret gameplay with BFA being significantly worse and shadowlands ret being slightly better than BFA but worse than Legion. In pve, making our rotation hit harder feels good and makes our dps relevant outside of cooldowns.
In pvp, it felt like we were mostly ignored until we pop wings/final reckoning because our rotation damage is so weak that others simply didn’t give a damn so giving us respectable damage outside our burst will make it harder to play against us and put us on even footing with other specs who have strong burst like us as we’re no longer unique in that aspect and good consistent damage.
Changes that I have mixed feelings about
4- Mobility - We got our charger off gcd and it has a longer duration. Also, we got unbound freedom in our class tree rather than pvp tree. In pve, our mobility is better with these changes especially with charger being off gcd, it’s gonna feel good being able to mount up while still playing the game. Right now using the charger feels very disruptive where I have to drop damage and healing in order to move around in moments where movement is crucial. This change will make the spec feel good and have better combat flow.
As for unbound freedom it doesn’t feel that important to use in pve. Most classes have better mobility than us and don’t need us to freedom them and imo if people aren’t using their mobility cds they should be punished rather than look at us paladins for not giving them bof so this is something I don’t really like when it comes to unbound freedom in pve in terms of expectations set upon us paladins and usually when we use freedom we use it to get out of roots as abilities in pve content that have slows tend to have major damage with it so if we’re getting hit by those we’re dead.
Now comes the part that I’m really unhappy about when it comes to our mobility and that’s in pvp. Putting unbound freedom on the class tree and making it dispellable absolutely ruins us, mages, priests and shamans who are all fairly popular right now will have completely crush us in pvp environment. Charger doesn’t do much in pvp as we can still get slowed, rooted and knocked back while we’re on it. The charger change helps mainly being to maintain as close a distance as possible when attacking or running behind a pillar while doing dps/healing and other stuff. Imo, unbound freedom should go back to the pvp tree for ret as it is right now making bof on ourselves undispellable since we don’t have many interesting pvp talents to begin with. This is mainly we rely on undispellable bof right now to set our burst, cc and everything up and taking it away ruins us.
Things I don’t like with the rework -
5- Mastery change - Right now our mastery scales good and it’s one of the parts of our kit that feels really good. Nerfing our holy damage (where most of our damage comes from) to make it both physical and holy is kind of annoying especially right now in our tree you’re making our abilities a mixture of holystrike, radiant and holy damage like what is our mastery buffing anymore? You’re turning it from a buff to a partial buff. This will turn out to be a nerf to our spec in terms of design which will cost us in the long run when you guys start nerfing us after overbuffing us on release of the rework and will overall leave the spec in a worse state than it is right now. Imo, make the mastery change optional through a talent in our spec tree where players can choose to keep the mastery as is, make it buff holystrike or maybe even radiant damage too if you want to really give us options.
6- Radient decree - In pvp, this ability was nerfed out of relevance and most rets don’t use anymore but in pve it’s one of our most crucial and powerful abilities. It feels good to press, it hits hard (can manage to hit 300k+ radiant decree on live right now), it’s up every trash pack and makes our hp generating and spending feel just right so please reconsider keeping it as it feels great in pve content and kinda felt good in pvp before you nerfed it hard.
With wake of ashes, it feels like we’re getting too much holy power and it just doesn’t feel like it has any place in our rotation in pve. In pvp, it works better because we don’t have really high uptime so it allows us to keep generating holy power and makes our rotation slightly more respectable.
7- Santified wrath - I’m probably one of the few paladins that has used this talent over seraphim because I absolutely hate seraphim. I’d rather uninstall the game than play my ret with seraphim. This ability was added in BFA and was probably the best thing that blizz added to rets during that expansion. It feels good, it makes wings hit hard and feel good in both aoe and single target scenarios in both pve and pvp. Hopefully you guys would consider keeping it.
Right now, in our class tree Zealot’s Paragon and Seal of the Crusader are our least chosen talents and after the rework there are talents that more than make up what those talents used to offer so maybe put sanctified wrath there because the talents that replaced those right now on ptr are neither interesting or powerful as final talents in our class tree.
8- Final reckoning - This is one of most satisfying buttons to press right now in both pve and pvp and you guys are repeatedly nerfing it on ptr. Please stop doing that! Giving it a a talent that buffs the duration buff doesn’t mean you should be gutting the spell. In pvp, it’s nerfed already and many classes have similar and/or superior burst to ours on a minute cooldown and in pve it’s literally the main button that keeps us competitive right now so I don’t see the point of the nerf. The holy power generation talent with it is completely irrelevant as we have a lot of abilities to generate holy power so please revert these nerfs.
10- Divine purpose - Why does this ability keep getting nerfed over and over again? It’s a good ability that feels good to play but it’s not by any means op whether in pvp where we don’t have the uptime to always make full use of it for it to be op and in pve where it feels normal and doesn’t give us over the top dps.
Yeah with these gigantic nerfs templar strikes is probably better. Im not a huge fan of TS tbh, it feels awkward having to combo the spell when other builders are up.
Templars Strike is really weird. It benefits from both Divine Arbiter and Burning Crusader. Not sure if that’s a bug.
I got a 48.5k Templar Slash (the second “combo”) crit earlier this morning when testing a TS build with just a sophic proc. Mind you, my paladin only has ilvl 384.
I am legitimately worried the rotation could devolve into just TS>Spender spam with enough mastery/haste. Because right now TS is out damaging BoJ even after the buff the latter got this morning. And yes, that’s taking Expurgation into account.
Edit: With this build - https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/paladin/retribution/DAPQUBUVlBhBEQkRZUCUANVVVRUUUVBVVUQEEEUV
I am doing 6k more dps than what my live character sims for. That is with BL, potion, all the buffs/debuffs, and perfect play, etc. And it mostly just involves spaming TS.
Just posted on the ptr forum… Also mentioned about getting a free HoPo generated every 13ish sec just from AA.
Edit: ah true, TS does lower dmg when not specing into burning crusade.
Leave wings seraphim and final verdict alone just buff the damage thank you. Happy to be a wheel chair specc <3