Nah it’s good.
At the moment there are actually a lot of specs that are very good performers.
This should honestly be the standard, no spec should be bad in content.
In fact there are more specs that are good than bad, aff lock, assassination rogue come to mind as underperformers in m+, but that’s honestly about it.
There are degrees ofc, some specs are very very good, others are good, or good enough, but not many are straight up bad.
Retribution has been meh since i began playing in 8.2
They deserve some time in the spotlight.
they’re not even overperforming to be honest, they are good.
Today a warrior pulled 500k on the first pack of mobs and had an easy 150k overall.
Also a shadow priest was doing 200-300k easily on packs.
I think the gear scaling is just ramping up very fast and some people are still mostly geared for 10.0.7 instead of 10.1 which looks like a massive gap.
IMHO retribution it’s quite spot on 
I think the rework is great. I do not really care about the numbers, I want the class to feel good to play, and boy ret is FUN!
Looking at the logs we are quite upper-middle of the pack in raids and A tier in m+, if that matters to you. I don’t think it’s overturned, I actually believe it’s really well balanced and the fact that we have multiple talent choices for different situations is such a good QoL improvement.
^This! I enjoy the class and the spec a lot atm and I wish it will stay like for some time. It was garbo for far too long, let us enjoy it for now 
If played correctly, destro is monstrous. Destro’s potential is crazy.
This is why actually doing the content matters, my thoughts are actually step into m+ rather than just looking at raiderio thank you.
Nah, a lot of people just don’t know how to press buttons. Like I did just under 130k dps in a freehold 17, still wearing previous seasons 2p tier, I mainly play holy on my priest and have like no clue how shadow really works and then I see shadow priests with better gear than me, they main shadow, pulling like 60-80k dps. How do you main shadow and know less than someone who just dabbles into it every now and then.
Like, they void torrent without all dots up on the target, a lot of times they don’t even have dots on the other targets either so no psychic link damage. They don’t throw shadow crash on CD and instead apply dots individually when they need to be refreshed.
Yes, 1 button. Don’t mind the other abilities they have to press to build HP in order to press that one button.
Yes it’s balanced. The only aspect of the spec in which it’s truly better than almost anything else, is it’s toughness. Mf can survive through almost anything.
A lot of the time there are external factors as well.
if a tank only pulls 5 mobs at a time, or he pulls 20
it drastically affects your overall DPS at the end because there are less pulls, more CD uptime so your damage goes up but a chunk.
with smaller more frequent pulls, a paladin class with 1 min CD rotation is going to shine
if you do whooping pulls on a 3min CD class, then you will wreck etc etc
All classes are easy. That is a silly argument.
Paladin is viable on M+ atm. I know you are used to only your rogues, warlocks/mages and warrior/dk tanks being meta but the revamp fixed the fact that paladins were too squishy for many years. They are now balanced and have the defensive’s to survive high m+.
Very sorry that several seem to be enjoying their class. Paladin was always very popular cause of the class fantasy. This is not news. Holy was usually the most viable of the 3 specs and now they fixed Ret and Prot. So, i am glad that paladin players are finally able to enjoy m+.
Yes, they are balanced. The only one you could make an argument towars is prot but they nerfed it heavily before the season started. Seriously, i got like 200k less hp than an equivalently geared DH tank. What Prot Pala is good at is utility. That is why they are top tier. Their damage and tankyness are not exactly impressive, though it’s enough.
It’s the same with Ret. They have good utility and now they have survivability. The damage is good but it’s not the best around. They are brought cause it’s decent but they have the utility and survivability. Simple. What is unbalanced about this? These are things rogues, warlocks, etc had for ages. If you make the argument that that makes paladin OP then those other classes are way worse. Let’s nerf them too!
Just cause you are a walock, it does not mean you will top every damage situation. Get over yourself.
Omg i done over 30 runs of Halls of Infusion over 2 days and no fragment droppe for me and not from vault either : ( hate this RNG loot system…
Tell me one class who will beat an equally geared paladin in burst damage in a standard M+ pull ? The instant the pull is made they go from 0-100 in like 3 GCDs.
Not saying they should be nerfed but it does get very tiring that EVERYTIME i see a ret pally in the group pink bar is at the top of EVERY pull.
Well we were running 13-15’s roughly but now my friend seems to have this belief he is “above” these level of keys because he outputs so much damage on his ret paladin he kind of ends up pugging keys mostly over the 16+ I dont feel too comfortable pugging 16+ yet xD
I have seen some quite sick damage on SP too!
I am finding this too as a lock my overall completely tanks if i have a wary tank who pulls small mostly.
I don’t pay that much attention to the first 3 seconds of a pull unless I’m playing ret (or have a ret in the group), and that’s because I know that ret burst can quickly deal with highly dangerous, but low health mobs. The imp packs in Court of Stars that we had to deal with last season come immediately to mind.
With CDs up, on pulls that last longer than the duration of the paladin’s wings, an equally geared feral druid will pull ahead over the duration of the pull. I’m using feral to compare because I’ve mained both feral and ret since the start of DF, so I’m familiar with how they both deal AOE damage.
The takeaway from this is that different dps specs have different strengths, and it makes sense to take this into account when forming a group. For example, ret palas specced for AOE damage (even the hybrid build I use for mythic plus) are relatively weak in ST. When taking a ret for its strength in AOE, you need to compensate for the ST weakness by taking other specs that are strong in that area. (Melting trash is pointless if you don’t have the ST output to kill the bosses.)
You make it sound like 100% of the top 100 RIO runs have a protection paladin and no other tank spec, which is misleading.
DPS compositions are also very mixed. Ret pala is actually not even present in the top 20.
M+ class balance has never been this good before.
FOTM rotates, in Shadowlands S4 Warlock was in every key and Paladins were totally useless.
Hope the fragment drops for you soon. I just got the fist weapon to drop from Underrot after 30+ key runs. I still need the weapon from Neltharus before I am done however.
As to retri damage numbers I could keep up with similar geared retribution paladins on windwalker spec with previous tier sets if I paid attention to when I used Touch of Death.
Their damage is not sustained however, so if enemies stay alive for longer than how long their Wings last they will start dropping down on the charts until they have it up again. If the tank’s pull pattern works well with Wings cooldown then they can produce really goid numbers.
It is the same with specs like warlocks and frost mages. Their numbers are really good as well, but they cannot push out those numbers if enemies are pulled out of frozen orb/blizzard/rain of fire range.
Pally mitigation is too high combined with their aoe dps and utility. VDH is there because of big damage from tier 4 set. Guardian druid can also do some crazy damage.
Both classes have next to no group utility of worth in M+ and also do the lowest damage.
Since M+ is primarily a speed run the easy fix is for the team to reassess tank damage and tune the numbers so that DK (no group utility) is second only to Warrior (no healing, no group utility, no cheat).
I guess you’ve never been in keys where the entire group has relied on the DK’s AMZ to survive magic AOE. And I guess you don’t play a dps spec that relies on mobs being stacked (DK grip) to do meaningful damage.
I really don’t get why people complain about classes being too strong in PvE. Almost all PvE content is group content or at least optional group content. Why would you be mad or annoyed by someone else pulling bigger numbers?`
When I have someone with a strong class/damage output in my (raid) team I am happy because that person is not only pulling their weight but potentially also for others too, resulting in a much higher player error tolerance that allows fun to actually blossom without being instantly penalized.
It is of course a different topic if a Class simply OHK a strong mob or hits them down with a few hits. But as long as they still need 20-30 hits together with their team to down a raid or mythic+ mob (not bosses) that seems totally fine to me.
Leave the “class too stronk” complaining to the PvPers.
Evoker easy, Fury warrior easy again