Hello Dev team, hope you’re seeing this.
The new paladin tree rework has been a breath of fresh air but its clear that a lot of the new talents have been undercut in fear of being too OP and are a bit meh in terms of power. Here is my list of ideal changes for Retribution that would fix the spec to be competitive again in PvP.
- Divine Protection: is no longer reduced by 50% in PVP. - 10% damage reduction on a 1 min CD is a joke lets be real here.
- Sanctified Plates: is no longer reduced by 50% in PVP. - Retribution is the lowest HP plate spec and one of the lowest HP specs across the board mainly due to this nerf alone. It dont feel good being full pvp gear and sitting in a lobby with guys with greens having more HP on a mail/cloth class. It dont fit the class fantasy at all
- Avenging Wrath: is no longer reduced by 50% in PVP. - This is long overdue. Retribution paladin is known for its strong Avenging Wrath windows and right now they strike no fear onto the opponent at all. And considering most people play Radiant Glory making wings last only 8-9 secs now days its ridiculous its not back to full power yet
- Divine Wrath: increase duration of Avenging Wrath by 4 secs (24 sec total -1min cd / Crusade by 6 secs (33 sec total - 2min cd). Now works with radiant glory at 50% effectiveness (+2sec avenging wrath / +3sec crusade). - this is a absolute must as this talent better off removed then left as it is it will open for better plays with radiant glory too as a lot of times time runs out cos ur in a full cc and cant even get to use ur hammer of light in the short window it gives.
- Blessing of Spellwarding: has been moved to Paladin talent tree as a choice talent with Blessing of Protection. - This is needed as it is impossible to pick up meaningful pvp talents when playing casters (rets weakness) making you have to drop damage/utility just to replace your BoP with Spellwarding when it could simply be a choice talent between them since you never run both. Can make it ret only if you dont want other specs having access to it.
- Improved Blessing of Protection: Reduces cooldown of BoP/BoS by 1.5 min (was 1 min). - the current talent is far too weak to pick up. Long cds are just not healthy game design if you need to reduce duration of BoP down to 8 secs but lower cds are always better
- Divine Spurs: Divine Steed CD reduced by 15 secs and duration by 3 secs. - This talent is an insult in its current state. It literally does nothing but make your steed weaker than without it.
- Steed of Liberty: Divine Steed also grants Blessing of Freedom for 8 secs (was 3). -Nobody will ever pick this unless it becomes full duration freedom. Even with the 8 sec freedom most people would prefer using freedom manually and separately in most situations. Unbowned freedom with this talent currently gives you 3 sec freedom and nearby ally 8 secs lol cmon now thats just silly
- Lead the Charge: Divine Steed reduces cooldown of 4 nearby allies by 50%. (was 3 secs) This would make strategic use of the steed allowing you to use if after your ally uses a movement ability such as a warriors charge of mages blink giving them a longer reduction and using it badly such as when their cd is almost ready will result in less reduction. This is good game design and will open up more options for ret to play with as right now only like 2 comps are viable.
- Stoicism: Stun durations reduced by 30% (no longer reduced in pvp combat) - honestly cant understand why add this and then reduce it in pvp combat when only time anyone would use it is pvp. Either make it a flat 30% reduction to stuns or make it that either divine steed or hand of freedom used on self while stunned removes stuns like it used to be in WotLK
- Holy Reprieve: Forbearance duration reduced by 15 secs (was 10) - nobody picks this up as its not strong enough. Either buff it or remove the talent entirely and give the 10 sec reduction by default
- Light’s Countenance: Cooldown of Repentance reduced by 15 sec and Blinding light reduced by 30 secs (was 15 for both). talent is only worth picking up if you play repentance atm. This will make it more appealing for Blinding Light users too
- Blessed Calling: Allies effected by your blessings have 30% increased movement speed (was 15%). Nobody plays this as its too weak. Maybe this would make it more attractive but maybe needs to be reworked to a different talent entirely.
- Divine Auxiliary: Final Reckoning and Execution Sentence now grant 5 Holy Power (was 3). - was a useless talent nobody picked up. with this its more appealing
Hope these reach the dev team soon as these changes are really easy to make and would make the spec so much more enjoyable and competitive.
14 Likes
This is a very well written post. I like that its focused on talents and spells that are weak atm. Dev team needs to read through this 100%
3 Likes
Divine protection yes.
But my problem is the lack of slows we have.
3 Likes
to get more slows we need to get less range on our abilities.
i would happily trade 5 yards of range on blade of justice and final verdict 20 yards > 15 yards (similar to hammer of light range) in exchange for a stronger slow on judgement (currently 30% slow for 8 secs after using judgement on live with Judgement of Justice talent)
I feel like a slow that starts strong and gets weaker over time could be nice. Something like:
Judgement slows enemies hit by 80% for 8 seconds reducing by 10% per second.
This would slow heavy on start giving us time to use our “non instant” gap closers to close the gap while slowly freeing the enemy over time to full speed
5 Likes
Something like chain of ice?
2 Likes
i guess it would be similar to chains of ice
alternatively make the movement speed boost go up from 10% to 20% on judgement and the slow go from 30% to 40%
but with this i dont think reducing range of abilities is possible as we will still never catch up
3 Likes
Think it was planned to go on the spec tree back in DF but changed to a pvp talent because it could be abused in PvE. Given that there can max be 2 prots in a raid and 1 in a dungeon it was limited to them alone.
On a side note: Im kinda against back to back immunities and dont think its healthy for the game overall. Im even on the fence that Bubble should be in the game at all as it costs us further development with actual abilities that arent relics from vanilla.
1 Like
yeah i can see how this could become an issue in pve tbh
maybe even remove the pvp talent of BoS entirely and make Spellbreaker stronger?
i feel passive defensive power of ret is too weak and active defensives are too strong
Fist of Justice should be physical instead of magical.
I hate how they can just dispel this or how DK can just AMS to not get stun.
1 Like
They’re not. I doubt that they read or care about EU forums at all.
I had post some thoughts about some changes myself and i will repost them here
Consecrated ground is kinda nice but i think the area should be buffed to 50% increase instead of 15 and the slow speed to 65%. Also should be switched to either do damage or do these amounts of slow so you can use for more dps or more control (pve or pvp).
Blessing of Freedom and Blessing of Protection should be baseline talents and there should be talents that reduce the cooldown and make unspellable for like 3 seconds ( afterwards they can be purged/dispelled or even stolen) Also this would be a choice between reduce CD or unspellable.
Steed of liberty should be a separate talent that could be used even if BoF is picked.
Justicar’s Vengeance should be buffed to do at least 15% more damage than Templar’s Verdict as it can be used only to melee range (or some small range up to 5 meters) and reduce healing done by 15% stacking 3 times with a duration of lets say 6 seconds, or redirect 15% of healing done to the target to yourself (no stacks there)
Flash of Light should be buffed by 100% since it is currently worthless and selfless healer buff extra 50% when cast on allies. Of course this can be tuned down if this is way too much but you get the point.
Avenging Wrath Might need also to be buffed for pvp to be at least somewhat compared to crusade
From PvP talents Lawbringer and Luminescence should get a small buff .
Ultimate retribution need a complete rework as in its current state is useless. Something like if someone within your aura has taken damage more than 50% from a single enemy within 4 seconds , that enemy will be forced to attack you for 3 seconds with 30% damage and this cannot occur more than once per 1,5 minutes or something like that .
2 Likes
The issue is. And it’s a big issue. If you give pala a “chains of ice” slow. They would have to reduce all damage to melee range again. Because right now it doesn’t matter if you are slowed in most cases you can get off full burst between 10/20 yards.
I’d prefer if they removed the ability for freedom to be purged and stolen within the first 2seconds. And make freedom pony a talent choice node “casts on self / others” and BoF baseline.
Because ret damage is actually pretty good WHEN you are on/near a target.
It is terrible… like any melee. When a mage or ranged perma slows you outwith bubble or freedom.
1 Like
I also agree selfless healer should be changed. It should be castable ONLY on yourself. And buffed. Selfless indeed! But it might actually make it USABLE.
And with the instant use talent it could be a viable alternative to the free WOG.
Seems a bit contradictory and 10 yards still freaking close. You aint pushing anyones health bar when further away, a dead locks DoTs is more of a threat then a ranged Ret.
1 Like
Hammer of light is 10 yards I believe. Auto attacks proc’s melee range. Every other ability is 20 yards. So you can do full dps as herald of the sun at 20 yards NEARLY.
My point was that if palas were made “full melee” the compensation would need to be either unslowable or a constand snare. Like chains.
I don’t know what would be worse. A melee you can’t escape or its current range?
Yhea… only that Holy power generation will be slowed from CSAA, no art of war procs either so even less Holy power. Far less FVs to use meaning far less DP procs while also meaning far less Empyrian hammers and lets not forget Lights deliverence stacking going WAY down.
There is a lot we miss out on when not in melee range.
Dunno, how do you escape a DK that has what you described?
Or a rogue, a DH… warrior or monk?