Actually neither of them are forced to do anything. Thats a selfmade pressure to be faster with your gear.
Mythic raids that hard push progression are already “forced” to run higher keys asap, do splits etc.
So yeah, no one is forced to archive anything in the fastest way. Season is long enough.
This is actually imo the problem that makes me feel ‘rushed’. A 5 and a half month season isn’t long enough to be done with gearing. And then we also want to challenge ourselves trying to get the highest keys done with the highest gear.
Depends on what you are looking for.
Cutting edge? 4k rio?
I only raid hc and my goal in m+ is between 2500 and 3000 and even I am almost complete in mythic gear end of season.
The highest keys done i am capable of.
Thats a open-end goal, so even if a season would be twice as long, its never long enough probably.
No. There are realistic things and unrealistic things. It certainly ends somewhere. But to be fair, i am enjoying 8 months seasons way more than 5 months. And even then i am not fully BiS, but at least close. In 5 months it is a rushed almost full myth-track and not full socketed that is possible, highest ilvl equipped instead of min-maxed secondaries. It just does not feel good not being ‘done’ gearing and the new season starts. And that is with being rushed for the whole season.
Example about being done with the seaon or not; I wasn’t that active in s4 DF so lets take S3.
https://raider.io/characters/eu/argent-dawn/Mistjo?season=season-df-3
Realistic i am very missing Atal 26’s and some fortified +1 keys. The season is sort of over. But it was unfortunate i still had some gear objectives to go for, and maybe had some extra +1 options on some keys. But i played the crap out of the season. Full time rushed.
Not entirely true. It’s very much a thing to get kicked out of push groups you’ve been part of due to your ilvl. Didn’t happen to me yet but to a few friends of mine.
So it’s not “self-made”. It’s peer pressure.
Depends on your “once per week ololol luck roll”. It’s also very much possible to have 5 weeks in succession of garbage loot you don’t have any use for.
This “get gear once a week” would be fine if it wasn’t ENTIRELY RNG dependent.
They at least should introduce some bad luck protection that lets you “salvage” useless/duplicate vault items and let you buy a piece of gear of your choosing with X amount of those tokens.
^-- This
TITLE!!! No… as high as possible, simply put.
I was at a similar RIO on my BDK (3206). Granted, I didn’t PLAY all of the season because I stopped playing WoW in January (I think that was around mid season?). But I also was very, very far from being done with gearing… like incredibly far away from it.
It is self-made. Who is forcing you to be in such groups? Find people with same mindset and goals.
“If I can’t have it, I don’t want others to have it” mindset. M+ has a huge gap in rewards between teleports and 0.1 title
At least they could have for a role
As raid progresses your chances on obtaining the loot you need grow(since others in your guild won’t roll on it if they have it), for M+ with each week chances decrease because most likely you will get the same items in the vault as you already have (not to mention that a lot of the items are trash from dungeons) and they dont DROP tier
They have that system for PvP, I see no problems with it, and I personally would rather do PvP for M+ gear than raid every week with 20 people on schedule
You don’t need to M+ to raid, yet, people who do M+ really have to raid. Unfair
I would welcome some unique armor sets and weapons transmogs for mplus
I’m bored with mounts and the cringe title you get at 1500
I would rather have something visible on my character like illusion on weapon and TMOG
They did a great job with MOP/WOD CMs
so i don’t understand why we not getting cool stuff for mplus
They hate us.
By that logic almost everything could be written off as “self-made” issues even irl.
Those people started out having the same mindset and everybody had fun together until someone of that group started getting into raiding with 1 or 2 others because they wanted to get a bit more gear to maybe get 1 key level higher and then issues start arising.
Having to look for new groups over and over again due to this issue can be really annoying and this outcome isn’t necessarily predictable.
But hey… all self-made. Guess we can just let every +10 have myth track items drop then because raiders complaining about m+ dropping more gear is also just a self-made issue… who cares and it’s totally irrelvant if they get kicked out of their guild due to not farming items in m+ because they can just look for a new guild. Ez pz.
Yes, it’s a hyperbole on purpose. 
Correct, that’s what I wanted to articulate earlier.
You can get 2 titles already
you get the chance to farm endless gear
you get mounts
you get portals
you get currnecy
more than enough already.
Why do you have to raid to do M+? Once you clear 10s you’re just going for an arbitrary score, easily done without ever setting a foot into a raid. However i think you would have a very hard time clearing mythic without doing M+s.
You would be changing the fundamentals of the game. Since vanilla we have done dungeons for pre-bis and then raids as end game content for end game loot. IMO as raids are a much larger hassle to do they should reward accordingly. I also want to note that i enjoy both and am content with the current system.
Does M+ DROP tier set? Just be honest here, raid gives way better gear for less effort (if we are looking at heroic raid exactly right now)
They changed it for PvP. Also, there was no M+ in vanila
Yes but it’s precisely this what’s exciting about m+. Chasing the score and the limit.
I’m curious about this. How so? Are we talking about the first few weeks to farm hero items to get faster progression in mythic raids? Or are we talking about just having 3 more vault options?
WoW has changed the fundamentals of the game so often that this barely counts as an argument tbh.
PvP gear went from not being different to PvE gear to having its own stats to having its own different stats to having no gear at all but templates to having different scaling now.
We have spells have different balancing now in PvP and PvE.
We don’t have attunement quests anymore for dungeons/raids.
We have 4 different raid difficulties now.
We have 3 to 4 different dungeon difficulties now with the last one scaling to infinity.
In vanilla we did dungeons to get pre-bis and then we raided.
Now we do dungeons->hc dungeons->M0->NHC raid->M+/HC raid->M+/Mythic raid. Also put delves somewhere in there as well… and world quests and rep farm.
It’s all over the place anyways.
I hear this a lot and I don’t like the argument at all.
If mythic raids are significantly harder, then I’m supporting this. But just because something is more bothersome to organize, it shouldn’t reward more in a video game.
Now we can argue about mythic raiding being harder than M+, which I can agree on but theoretically speaking, even mythic raids are ultimately designed to be beaten by players while M+ are designed to scale into infinity and therefore can’t be beaten.
Looking at RWF, where the best players beat the raid after 10 days on average while looking at the M+ leaderboards, where new records are still being set at the very end of the season.
Mechanically mythic raids are harder/more complex though, I agree with that.
But having “it’s more of a hassel to get 20 ppl together” shouldn’t be a valid argument in the case of gear progression imo.
You can catalyst items though?
That’s true. Tier sets haven’t been an issue to me as an M+ only player since the catalyst exists.
Raiders also can