Buff aotd, proccing 6 wounds in PvP, increase the wound damage, and unnerf superstrain, and prolly unholy will be in a better spot.
Other wanted changes:
Buff DC, that hits 1.8k, is pathetic
Maybe rework wounds to be refreshable and heal you once every 15s as they do now.
Add mortal strike to ghoul’s claw to make the spec viable in 2s
Abom made baseline in stead of aotd
Do something with gargoyle since is a dead talent for over 2 years
Remove the rng from festering
What if it was instead changed to buffing your next KM Obliterate damage for 10%-15% per stack, and was a activated ability? Sort of like Sharpen Blade for Arms Warriors.
Now what makes this neat now is that it would give some value for 2H dk’s to either use Rune of Razorice in PvP, or go for Glacial Advance, while being a sudden burst of damage for both DW and 2H
And what if Glacial Advance put 2 stacks of Razorice on targets hit?
Feel this fantasy really need to revisited, especially resiliance to physical damage. For example I should be laughing when a Monk is in melee range and not utilizing their mobility to get away and revitilizing etc.
i get u all, and myself, have great ideas, but can we stop to overcomplex frost?
bring it back to legion standards, u press obliteration, RW and strikes, simple. no other buffs or crasy machanics, those tend to nor work in pvp
I argued that something easy to avoid is not strong by default. The chill streak bounce crits around 9k for me, with full vers (34% +) and 54% + mastery pvp gear. Even 10-11k crit wouldn’t be that scary when players have around 60k health pool nowadays. Windwalkers are another story.
Good suggestion.
Yes because they have better CD’s and abilities compared to DK.
I see the suggestions and they are good in an ideal world. Right now we suffer heavily from GCD issues therefore we need to treat all “Active Abilities” with caution.
As stated in my post I personally favour a more simplified approach where we get longer pillar windows and having a more powerful ability rather than chill streak. That way the spec would have its “simple but effective” characteristic back.
Exactly, hence Frost DK should either have better base obliterate damage or somehow the remorseless winter should be buffed/reworked.
I agree, just want to clarify something you said about obliteration… Are you referring to Legion S1 frost? Because I think people only played obliteration around s1 and that was still debatable. Around legion s5+s6 and s7 nobody played obliteration at least the Frost DK’s around 2.8 to 3k rating. All frost DK’s played Hungering Rune Weapon. As you know Blizzard later changed the old empowered rune weapon and made hungering rune weapon the new ERW because everyone wanted it to be baseline. Edit: Every frost dk in legion s1 (glad and r1) played chill streak because the old version was super powerful as I explained in my post. Chill streak was the main source of damage in Legion s1. No frost DK played chill streak during s5+s6+s7 because Frost DK could do heavy pressure without it.
In addition, while I agree that the state of frost dk was better in legion compared to SL, it had its flaws and it was in no way perfect. Just because blizzard failed to create a feared juggernaut class in Shadowlands should not make us want to go back to our “less bad” state. At least that’s what I think.
All in all I agree the spec should feel simple yet effective, hence the suggestions to improve it.
i wasnt even talking about power.
every 1min we had pillar/obliteration+ERW+RW buffed by gathering storm, with deathchill RW root into “winter is coming”* stun bringing alot of pressure on a healer and melee control.
the dmg can always be tweeked
*forgot the name of the pvp talent that every 5 times RW dealt dmg it would stun for 5sec, and back then haste made RW tick faster (not anymore), i know the current version is awfull
PS: also ranged frost strike
Both spells would need to be heavily buffed to compensate, especially frost strike.
Would not trust them to do this properly. Just look at the disaster that was Heart Stop.
They took that talent butchered it minced it and gave us one of the most useless talents in the game as replacement.
To be honest i would prefer they just made chill streaks bounce range much longer. Double the bounce range to 12 and stop chill streak from being able to be soaked by pets etc. Seeing your burst get soaked unintentionally is another flaw of the garbage known as chill streak
They won’t buff something in FDK, cuz PvP. If u just delete CS he will be in the same position as UDK after deleted NS - somewhere nowhere. Only they can do is fully unnerf BoS, but BoS in hardly viable for ranked, mb for dummy BG backpedal players.
Remember that this was because it was a good counter, and we can’t have that. Look back at BFA before NS got nerfed hard, healers complained that they were actually being countered, so of course it had to be nerfed.
No, cuz it became GOD ability in damp games, but not cuz healers complaint. NS was impossible to balance. If it was good by default - it was GOD in damp, if it was ok in damp - it was useless till damp.
I’m fine with necro wounds if I can maintain uptime on it. It has to be refreshed/stacked easier.
Necro was fine as a %att power as it was on MoP, after they re-introduced it in legion it was a mess, either too powerful or too weak
Nowayday will be mistake compare old WoW and modern WoW with borrowed systems. In this META even 7.5% NS in 1-st season was nothing. He did tones of DPS on paper but have 0 kill potencial and lack of CC-s. Old NS UDK was about damp pressure spec with games on mana. And ofc rework - nowdays pet is a burts, not support. People even suggested here on forum to buff NS to 12% or 15%. 
give one SHOT in pvp BIG FUN as the META is
UDK can at least have abom buff. When rsham call his elemental with legy everyone cry and hide, when UDK call his abom everone laught at you. Abom clunky - don’t follow ur target, slow and have low DPS.
They can increase abom CD - buff it and it will have nice synergy with army of the damned talent. It will work in pet build for UDK, but instead of AoD he will have good abom. Also i think abom must be reworked, he shoudn’t be a wounds generator. Give him his own special attacks and own AOE disease. Also it will be good to class fantasy and UDK mechanic.
BTW
what about AoE Cap for Scourge Strike + Death and Decay in patch 9.1.5?
For frost: Remove BoS remove Chillstreak and make each of our abilities actually hurt all the time instead of only during CDs. Completely revamp the talents and give us something that’s not either a bunch of boring passives that increase damage or useless and undertuned actives.
And yeah rework Frost Strike. It’s the most boring ability in our toolkit. It’s probably the worst spender ability in the game. It feels bad to press. You press it and do crap damage. Wow.
No one fears DKs anymore. We’re a joke. Even in lore the Ebon Blade were made into a bunch of wimps so I guess we’re at least lore-accurate…
They won’t rework or redesign DKs so often, most of player don’t like play thru BoS(somebody like it) and they don’t care. Its not drood, mage or rogue, even war who will take much more attention. They only like to give some nerfs when DK in A or S tier.
I remember in BFA they nerfed so hard in pre-season 1 FDK so he was unplayable in PvP(even in BGs on first place was auto-attacks in DPS meter) till season 3.
Based on all of the participants and their posts in this thread, I want to try something different. This would sort of act as a survey and I am keen to hear about your thoughts. Would you be happy if you see the following changes made to DK?
1- Frost (PvP)
1.1- Chill Streak PvP Talent Removed.
1.2- Dead of Winter PvP Talent Removed.
1.3- New PvP Talent Deathly Winter: Your Remorseless Winter now reduces all enemy healing received by 5% per tick up to 40% (if you can keep on the target for full 8 seconds basically).
1.4- New PvP Talent Column of Frost: Increases the effectiveness of Pillar of Frost by 15% and its duration by 5 seconds.
1.5- Obliterate damage increased by 10%.
1.6- Frost Strike damage increased by 10%.
1.7- Wraithwalk Tier 40 talent is now baseline.
1.8- New Tier 40 Talent Iceborne: Your Icebound Fortitude now applies Iceborne which heals you for 40% of your max hp over 5 seconds.
1.9- Tier 40 Talent Permafrost rework: Your Death Strike now grants you an absorb shield equivalent to 10% of your max hp.
2- Unholy (PvP)
2.1- Necrotic Wounds PvP Talent Removed.
2.2- New PvP Talent Necrotic Coil: Your Death Coil now becomes Necrotic Coil, which applies a stacking healing debuff on the enemy target absorbing 10% of all healing received for the next 10 seconds per stack. This effect can stack up to 3 times, stacking the effect does not refresh the duration.
2.2- Necromancer’s Bargain PvP Talent Removed.
2.3- New PvP Talent Might of the Necromancer: Apocalypse’s cooldown is reduced to 45 seconds and Apocalypse now deals 5% increased damage for every wound on your target, up to 6 wounds.
2.4- Raise Abomination PvP Talent Reworked: Your Dark Transformation additionally summons an Abomination to fight by your side.
2.5- Summon Gargoyle Talent now deals 60% increased damage.
3- Unholy (PvE)
3.1- Damage of Death Coil increased by 10%. This does not apply to PvP situations.
3.2- Damage of Scourge Strike/Clawing Shadows increased by 5%. This does not apply to PvP situations.
3.3- Bursting Sores now deals 30% more damage.
3.4- Ebon Fever Reworked: Applying Outbreak grants you Unholy Power for 15 seconds, which increases the damage of Epidemic and Death Coil by 15% for the duration.
3.5- Death and Decay now additionally causes your Death Coil to hit all targets while standing in it.
4- Frost (PvE)
4.1- Obliterate damage increased by 25%. This does not apply to PvP situations (In addition to the 10% damage buff in PvP section).
4.2- Frost Strike damage increased by 25%. This does not apply to PvP situations (In addition to the 10% damage buff in PvP section).
4.3- Pillar of Frost duration increased to 15 seconds.
4.4- Koltira’s Favor Legendary now increases Obliterate damage by 20% and provides 15% chance to refund runes.
4.5- Biting Cold Legendary now increases Remorseless Winter’s damage by 45% and increases its duration to 12 seconds.
4.6- Frostwyrm’s Fury damage increased by 10%.
4.7- Cold Heart Talent Reworked: Applying Chains of Ice now costs 30 Runic Power instead of 1 rune and Chains of Ice deals 300% of Attack Power frost damage to all enemies within 10 yards of your target.
Personally i dislike unholy pet damage, too much damage comes from pets, and it’s something i generally do not enjoy.
Aside beast mastery, i think all classes should have a lonely winder like ability, where you can decide not to use your pet for more damage coming from your own abilities.
As for beast mastery, the spec itself is about pets, so i am willing to let it slide as it would make no sense to have a spec purely designed around pets, with no pets.