Actually if the make something like necromancer alike spec - let people decide what they whant pet or dmg thru skills, but its about another rework. DK won’t get it anyway.
I understand you and I also agree. Frankly, while I think unholy needs a complete redesign, I wanted to create this forum post for “Rework” to at least get something going for the short term future. In the long term future, they really need to get rid of the wound system or make it 10x more rewarding as I stated.
In an ideal world, unholy could use diversity via different talent builds: a pet focused build vs more SS/CS focused build.
I have been playing D2R since its launch and it felt so great to actually invest in talents which DOES something. For example, necromancer corpse explosing is a great AoE ability and I truly don’t understand why doesn’t steal some of these mechanics.
In addition, the Necromancer can actually be a class by itself, but somehow devs are pushing people to play unholy dk or demo lock.
It doesn’t need a complete rework in my opinion, but it does need a petless option.
Right now those specs are only good in the raid. In m+ only good DK spec right now is Blood.
I think the wound system either needs to be changed entirely (redesign to get rid of wound system) or reworked to make unholy offer a more rewarding gameplay. For frost, a simple rework is more realistic than a complete redesign because Frost was actually good during SL pre-patch (end of BFA). Then blizzard decided to nerf obliterate and we are in this current situation.
I don;t really understand why you have a problem with wounds, i think it’s good. I liked it in legion, i like it now, the only thing i do not like is the pet reliance.
Also on a different note, i really do not like how much damage is provided by auto attacks, like are you serious blizzard? Some classes do 20% of the damage with auto attacks.
In legion it used to be about 3%, skills like festering wound would do about 15 % of your total damage, now it’s like 6%, my bet is that they wanted to reduce the skill involved in damage, since the only requirement for doing damage with auto is to just be on target.
there was a big diference in legion, you had way more haste available, this meant you could cycle between wounds/fester faster.
in BFA they crippled secondary stats in gear alot, this made wound system feel very clunky. specialy swaping targets both in pve and pvp
My simple suggestion would be my only solution for frost dk, (my own opinion ofc) is to see some abilities returned.
Death Siphon was without doubt one of the best
Raise the healing of DS because our survivability is super low, we are munched in a 1v1 vs Druid, Pala, Warr, etc.
A raise in pvp dmg for about 10% overall. Everytime Frost DK gets a strong ability it is almost instantly nerfed, Cold Heart from legion? nerfed 75% in PVP, Frostwyrms Fury? Nerfed to ?% in PVP, and even Chill Streak got a 10% dmg nerf like it wasn’t weak enough already hardly making any bounces with that small amount of range.
i would want to see death siphon returned the way it was back in Pandaria
an increase in armour would be fitting a plate armour wearing Death Knight, not being mauled through like wet paper
While I think I already explained my opinion on the post, it was a bit long. For sake of clarification and to answer your question; the wound system was introduced in Legion which did not have today’s GCD changes that were implemented years later into the game. In SL, the GCD pretty much destroys the wound concept. In addition, in modern PvP, the meta favours classes which can do the most damage in the shortest window possible. Unholy requires build-up which does not offer a sufficient reward and this issue puts the spec at a disadvantage. This is also visible not only in PvP, but also in PvE environments.
The fact that “Unholy Assault” was reworked also shows the class design is bad. It is argued that players should use Unholy Assault after using apocalypse, which means you have to cast 2x FS then apocalypse and only after then you UA because your pets take a bit of time to spawn and you lose out on DPS if you UA first then apocalypse(your haste buff will not be maximized).
So yes, I have a problem with wounds concept especially after the implemented GCD changes.
Speaking for PvP, it sucks. For PvE, it is fun for me (most of the time) however I do not think it is rewarding enough.
Also this
What do you think about these changes? I’ve written them and they seem to be in line with your suggestions although on different perspectives.
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I see, thanks for the clarification.
Anyway i totally agree that the secondary stat reduction and soft cap sucks.
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Tbh i like those changes alot, sadly, they will never be applied because only getting half of those would most probably make 70% of the WoW community to complain and get us nerfed down to hell, they would make us way to OP somehow, even getting a third of those, but really good suggestions, if they was to be applied we would litterally be undefeatable, ive mained Frost DK since Pandaria and i will always do so, but they really dont like DK over in blizz Headquarters:/
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My pleasure, and I would love to see a different unholy build where pet reliance is not mandatory as you stated. We can only hope.
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Thanks and I think these are fair changes. These changes add quality of life improvements and make our damaging spells more meaningful. Right now Frost has some talents + spells which are doing NOTHING. Therefore I recommended these changes to bring us closer to the S+ Tier. Frankly, even if all these changes are implemented, we will only get to S+ tier but we will not be the best class despite the changes.
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if all those changes were applied, firstly the healing reduction on enemy players would destroy the whole priest/druid gameplay, meaning that hitting RW and then Asphyxiation would make them easily killed after hitting Frostwyrms Fury, ColdHeart chains of ice, and some oblits, boom you will see 25 threads within the hour complaining.
the dmg bubble from DS would keep paladins and other high DPS classes unable to completely defeat a frost dk, recieving healing and a shield then popping a few stunners or anything keeping them stopped for 4 seconds will make DS be able to load up a big shield, especially having that one ability that also reduces Runic Power on all abilities, spamming DS for a few moments then just pop all top abilities will bring down any enemy player, getting pillar of frosts Strength boost also would make things harder for anyone facing a frost DK, and should you be low on health icebound fortitude and DS combo then hitting DP if your health is at 50%, also wraithwalk as a baseline would put us up to speed to any blip mage trying to escape. i would have played this spec with these abilities in the best way possible and i promise people would complain!
even though as you said it might not put us on top, but it would be enough to irritate alot of players, but i would LOVE to get those changes applied
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Thank you for the input.
In PvP we usually play blind because our partners have better stun durations and we want to avoid DR. The current GCD system will force us to time our RW correctly during a kill window otherwise we will miss out on Pillar + Obliterate burst during stun. Also, enemies will have to kite you better when they see RW is popped. Mind you it is a PvP talent and I suggested removing chill streak. RW healing reduction goes up with ticks so it reaches 40% max only after 8 seconds of build-up and that 40% healing reduction only lasts for 1 sec (Unless you get Gathering Storm and extend it for a bit more as a reward for your successful uptime on target). So the total healing reduction duration is 8 seconds only, and you build up stacks the more ticks hit a target. This can be easily kited and counterplayed. Priests can still use Greater Fade every 30 seconds despite your CC chain, and the enemy team can also counter CC you to prevent your setup. It is not that OP it just makes us viable during a kill setup. Have you seen what Ret Pala can do right now? Believe me it is 10x better they flat out can kill.
Any type of shield or absorb actually gets lowered by Healing Reduction effects so it won’t be as OP against Warriors or any type of Healing Reduction class (Rogues, Ferals you name it). You are spending a big amount of RP to keep yourself alive rather than using it to DPS, it should be rewarding. Also dampening effects will lower the shield value since they count as healing reduction.
If you are talking about Hypothermic Presence then it’s a choice but you will lose out on Gathering Storm talent which could give you extended duration and more dmg on RW instead. It’s a choice. A dk usually dies in a stun window so if you don’t have IBF or trinket you will not be able to DS anyway hence proper setups will still easily kill you. You are just getting meaningful protection vs button spammers/tunnel vision players.
In my suggestion chill streak was removed and it is only fair we can select a PvP talent which can offer us longer pillar windows. Right now enemies can disarm+stun+fear+poly+root+ xyz CC you during pillar which lasts only 12 second. On the other hand rets have 20 sec 1 button kill walking around. I won’t even mention warriors.
If you IBF which is a 3min CD (conduit drops it to 2.5), what do you think should happen? Of course it should be BIG. You are also investing a talent point into it which adds 40% max hp healing over 5 seconds. Remind you IBF gives 30% dmg reduction and that itself is sometimes not enough vs the dmg of some classes rn. 8% max hp heal per sec for 5 sec is not OP especially now that most classes has Mortal Strike variants.
You can still get rooted while you are using Wraith Walk. You can still get stunned. It’s a talent which does not deserve a talent point investment. Making is baseline should be fair.
Nice to hear.
As you can see I am providing these suggestions because right now there are some classes which are insanely strong. They have much more powerful abilities and they will still be extremely strong and better even if all my suggestions were applied. Warriors have insane dmg + defensives + team utility. Same for retribution paladins.
Hunters are immortal, priests are immortal. In today’s meta it is only fair if everyone is OP. Right now we are far from being OP. My suggestions only ensure that we are brought within the S+ tier nothing more. There will still be better classes.
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wow you really know the classes, i came back to the game just few days ago and i only observed on wpvp sits, i got rekt by a paladin 4 times in a row, no matter what i did he crushed me lol, yeah ur right they can easily counter Frost DK even with all those changes, which is why i would really like to see the return of Pandaria Death Siphon, it would actually keep us alive way longer than we ever could, healing you for 150% of the damage dealt while also damaging atleast 2-8k like it used to would really spice things up in wpvp
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Hey,
Thank you for the kind words. As you also experienced there are tons of melee classes which are S+++++++++ tier right now. Therefore the proposed changes should bring us closer to them. I agree that Death Siphon can be a good addition to buff us, and as you also previously pointed out, we need much more buffs to actually be good.
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I remember a frost artifact trait that would give your icebound fortitude an increase in death strike healing by like 400%, it was pretty cool to use.
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