It is almost impossible for me to get higher itemlevel gear because of my rio score.
its not that i cant do higher keys, it is just impossible to get into them because of a rio addon.
I am currently geared and skilled over my rio score.
i have tried for a few hours every day, to get into a 9 or higher key with205 itemlevel as a ret paladin.
And i am unable to raid because of home situation.
i think it is very wrong to allow a addon to have such a huge impact on player experience.
i have helped alot of friends in lower keys so maybe it is because of this…
This rio is ruining it for alot of people that i used to raid with too.
It clearly isn’t. You need to work your way up to get invites or play with friends. I blame PVP andies who think m+ is the same thing as farming honor and go in all braindead.
I can feel your pain OP, but for pug world, raiderio is necessary.
It’s literally the only way i can actually see if someone has somewhat of experience in the dungeon.
Tho it’s not foolproof. I failed 2 keys in Theater of pain cuz ppl ran away when the mobs jumped on them. Had ppl leave twice cuz the key was going to fail.
But at the same time, i also found really good players, even at 203ilvl for a 10+ key. Did halls of atonement, even if i probably cleared 110%+ of the mobs, we still made the key with a minute left. They were good and competent.
We barely died in there. Because even when shiet went down they had enough experience to get out of the bad situation and deal with it.
If i had ppl with bad dps or not knowing how to deal with the mobs, we’d never make the key.
Non meta classes have it harder to get into groups even with good io score. You arent the only one applying to groups. Especially as DPS. Every group gets spammed with DPS.
This is a good example why mythic dungs can’t be endgame. Imagine excluding like half the classes in the game from accessing 226ilvl items from mythic dungs.
as in normal drops from like a mythic +25 or something.
Me personally i always go as tank with my boomie brother cuz the dmg + assist on kiting is just to good. And some classes are mandatory. Like a BL class and a good kiting class like druid. And then 3rd dps doesn’t matter to much, usually i want a melee, so i’d take a retri.
And healer not so sure, a competent one, don’t care to much bout class there.
It doesnt matter what is endgame. Meta classes will always be preferred. Especially in a role that the vast majority of people play. It isnt any different for Raids for instance. Raids even extend this by basically ignoring any melees or hard ignore after a certain amount of melees.
hm while it is true. Every class can still do mythic raiding.
But certain classes just straight up CAN’T clear certain mythic dungeons at a certain key.
I mean look at raiderio, might be diff today. But last time i checked there was 1 warrior at like 20+.
issue with mythic dungs as mentioned is that some classes gets excluded, not cuz meta, but cuz they physically can’t do it with their class. It’s just to inferior, doesn’t have the necessary toolkit.
i disagree… purely because raids do the exact same thing in PuG enviroments
its not that Half the clases in the game cant access M+. its that Half the classes in the game Wont be accepted in PuGs, same as Raiding
If u log onto a Warrior DH or Paladin and apply to a Raid Pug u’ll get shot down by over half the list minimum… this isnt a M+ Problem this is a game Wide problem. Dont PuG Content, its not enjoyable, its a Selfish enviroment and people wont help you.
however Guilds like all content, make these lines easier to cross. if anything M+ helps u be able to remain in guild content
the reason PuG Raiding exists, is because a large playerbase Cannot Comitt to specific times. however M+ Requires far less people doesnt need pre-organisation in alot of cases and Can be done much faster and at any time with no lock outs.
Meaning u could join a M+ Guild and just get involved without any schedule conflicts or problems… where Raiding Precisely requires Time + Day Every week with good attendence.
Premade Groups are the way forward.
I reject lots of speccs in PuGs. but also take those same speccs when played by my friends, thats just the way it works.
Every class can also do Mythic+. Just some classes or specs are better than others. Creating the Meta. And people prefer Meta setups.
Because there are way better alternatives. For both Warrior Roles. The DPS role being so easily replaceable that it doesnt matter and the tank role while less replaceable is something you will wait for if you do very high keys as a non premade.
The end game is 15 tho. Also there is a warrior at 20+, meaning the class can do it. However there is still a Meta and if classes/specs shine in it then they are being favored across all levels even if it doesnt matter for low keys people will do it anyway. The high keys are solely there to see what one can push and that is meta territory.
Warriors can tank mythic raiding. They can’t tank mythic 20+, theres your difference.
The class just doesn’t have the toolkit to tank mythic dungeons. In mythic raiding you don’t kite mobs around the area, like you do in mythic dungeons.
I do get where you’re coming from with that and you’re probably right. But my point wasn’t pugs wanting meta, it’s that mythic dungeons DEMAND meta.
15+ all classes probably can do it, some easier than others. But if you’d want a mythic dungeon to drop 226items, you’d need it to be prob around 25+, at which point, no other tank than probably demon hunter could tank it.
A warrior would be oneshot. But mythic raiding isn’t made equally difficult as a 25+ key.
You cant compare M+ and Mythic Raid difficulty anyway given one is a 5man environment and the other a 20man environment while Mythic Raiding bombards you with tactics where M+ does not. M+ difficulty is “what numbers can you push or take” in the very end. Its two majorly different aspects of difficulty.
Raider io is just a reflection of your experience in the dungeons translated into a number depending on whether you timed it, how fast you timed it or if you failed it but still completed it. You build score by timing/completing keys at a higher and higher level.
Particularly if you are a dps signing up to keys you will be the most common type of applicant and group leaders can pick whatever they wish to form their groups.
As Sinny pointed out, the best way to get score/keys done is:-
We all start with no score and build it up. In low keys most people don’t even look at score. But in higher keys they will look at score and your ilvl. We all play at various levels.
On the whole this expansion has not been gear friendly. The drop rates have been appalling.
At 20, not 20+. I checked 23 is highest key done atm and no warrior shows up above 20. As protection that is.
Mythic dungeons has a fundamental issue that causes this. So mythic raiding has a based stat and dmg etc it does. And what makes it mostly difficult, isn’t necessarily the dmg, but the mechanics. If you don’t screw up mechanics, the dmg never really hits that hard to the point of just being straight up oneslapped by a melee attack.
However in mythic dungeons this only applies to mythic 10. Above mythic 10 it’s only stats. Stuff hits harder, stuff has more hp, nothing else.
It almost becomes a math problem at that point. To which the classes that can do dmg on the move, kite etc are the survivors and the ones who can’t, IE warriors, dies.
(again speaking from tank perspective here)
So while you could do every class in mythic raiding, sure maybe enhance isn’t as strong or favorable as elemental. But you will be able to invite every class and almost every specc to and clear it.
But when the only difficulty becomes dmg+ and hp+ then you run into these issues.
Also because again mythic 14 and 15 drops 10. To get 13 you need 16 17, and to get to 226 we need 25 key.
This is where my problem comes in. You cannot do key 25 without the necessary bis classes. Hell even Demon hunters atm struggles at 23.
Mythic dungeons would require heavy nerfs in order to allow every other class in there aswell, but what happens then? Well for meta classes it would become a walk in the park.
Because mechanics are out the window past 10+, theres nothing, only stuff hits harder and has more hp.
Again enforcing my point that mythic dungeons cannot be the endgame.
Raiding is.
Mythic dungeon is the gap between raiding difficulties. But it’s not the endgame.
It’s i guess kinda what Torghast was meant to be? The endless difficulty.
