In quite a lot of solo shuffle rounds in these two days, I have observed:
DH was in every game. Other then that, I have seen a lot of fury, feral, sin, spriests. All other specs I have seen them 2,3 times, including devastation.
I haven’t seen mage and I was the only hunter in all my games. Not a single boomkin or ret paladin either.
Tells quite a lot, doesn’t it.
Are you sure he was talking about setups as a team?
Because the way he phrased that post, it looked more like he was talking about how rogues can solo others in stuns with no counterplay (whether or not that’s true is besides the point, it’s just how he phrased it).
He even says in the same post:
so it doesn’t look like he’s against setups as a team. Looks more like it’s about rogues performing as a whole team as just 1 class, according to that post.
Nerf the mortal strike is more than enough, at least before those BS rogue and locks nerfed
I could live with dh, sp, fury, demo staying as they are atm but rogues are just too much.
Once again an expansion starts and rogues are oneshotting every minute with very little effort and you have to use 2-3 cds to stop it IF you can.
Didn’t expect to be triggered by rogues this soon, not gonna lie.
It depends on the class they are against. Because there has never been a time where rogues couldn’t 100-0 certain classes in a stun lock. That is what they have always traded for being very squishy themselves. That is why monks can do the same - and why mages could back when they had deep freeze. So that is still a statement I don’t agree with - unless he is talking about warlocks, healers with defensives and plate wearers.
So if this guy is a DH or a monk. Then yeah, he can definetly be 100-0’ed in a stun and that shouldn’t change. Because he can do the exact same to the rogue.
Again, I believe all classes need a damage tuning. This isn’t a problem unique to rogues. People just don’t like that rogues have to stun in order to kill. Rogues are annoying af, and you will not see an expansion where people don’t complain about them because people hate not being able to play their character. But that is also why it is so satisfying when you finally catch the rogue messing up vanish or trinket.
Can they mess it up vs. anything other than something like another rogue? I doubt there’s much that can punish a rogue using that stuff suboptimally.
Dude this is just a stupid question. You know very well that rogues can be punished for messing up.
One thing I will say though is that they have to redesign rogues. Back in MoP, rogues were very equal in terms of their eviscerate and ambush. You knew what was coming to you. This is the problem with many classes today. They make major abilities where “if it crits he dies”. But back then they 100-0 as well.
This is why I usually stay away from forums. Can you be more toxic… like nobody is saying rogues are bad. And I think the last time someone ever said they were bad was in the first season of MoP. People did think rogues would be bad in beginning of WoD (which they turned out not to be). But except for that I have never heard anyone truly say “rogues are bad”. Maybe “sub is bad” but sub really was quite meh throughout BfA and I believe parts of Legion? I didn’t play much Legion.
Rogue potion is not 30%, it’s 20%, and it’s not instant, it’s a 4s HoT. And it costs ressources.
You can hate on Rogue all you like, but try to do it while not knowing nothing about it so what you say isn’t stupid.
Pretty much the only way to punish a rogue for messing up “vanish or trinket” as you put it, is to land a long stun, or chain stuns, and there isn’t much of that to throw around in arenas if you’re not a rogue though. Although there’s feral ofc.
The rest are limited to stuff like leg sweep and storm bolt, and then the magical stuns which tend to be dispelled so it’s hard to do a setup on a rogue with that, after having found a way to make 'em waste a vanish and trinket first.
DH is probably able to punish it, but they tend to suffer vs. rogues when blur is on CD so that isn’t the easiest thing to do either.
In the end, the one that can properly punish a rogue for messing up “vanish or trinket” ends up being another rogue. Or the ones with stuns somewhat like rogues, meaning ferals, or possibly DHs.
So the question remains:
I mean, sure, you can find those specific scenarios where a rogue has to fail so hard with their defensives and trinket that they just flop over, but with the way they’re designed now, can they realistically fail it? Since not much can punish suboptimal usage of that stuff.
It’s easy to say it’s a failure if they use it for literally nothing, but under realistic conditions where the rogue doesn’t fail it so obviously but just uses it suboptimally, is it even possible to punish it unless you play a rogue or wannabe rogue-feral, or possibly a DH?
And don’t they have 2 vanishes now? Not to mention shadowy duel-escapes.
Also, keep in mind, you have to think of how they’re supposed to get the rogue to use it suboptimally in a realistic setting, it doesn’t just vaguely refer to everything that isn’t the best possible way to use it.
Most classes ends up using what they have to get a rogue to use it suboptimally, and then there’s the question of how to punish them for using it. Which is the problem in a nutshell.
hows dk vs rogue in 2s? u probably eat them as assa right?
I faced only two so far in 2v2 and they were pretty bad so … but yeah I think the match-up favors the Assa team unless you play with Disc or something that thr DK can destroy with the proper healer.
Stun them out of his teammates LoS then or cc the healer at the same time.
Dks have physical stun, hunters have physical stun, warriors have physical stun, druids have physical stun, priest can just silence and stun at same time, monks have physical stun, demo locks have physical stun, rets can one-shot a rogue if they get just 3 seconds off their 5 sec stun.
Most classes have options. But why does the magical stuns not matter? You gotta make it very obvious for a rogue to pre-cloak your stun. I do agree, rogues are the ones that can easiest punish other rogues. But they are also both squishy.
I have never said rogues aren’t strong. But you make them sound like they are immortal gods. These arguments are something that has always been the case with rogues.
You listed a lot of stuns with a very long CD there, and how would that exactly punish wasting vanish and trinket suboptimally? You either kill them in a stun, or they tend to escape or counter-CC you instead. So how are they supposed to kill them in those stuns, with that long CD, while also having their healer CCed, or does it all fall down to getting them to follow you behind pillars while you lure them with candy?
Keep in mind, you first have to get the rogue to pop that stuff, which also requires investing something under normal circumstances.
FIVE SECOND STUN WITH HEALER CCED !
Final answer
Funnel more damage into the player over the pets would get my vote. But the class fantasy feels like a spec that revolves around your summons doing the damage.
Either way, I hope for a fix for all. I’d much prefer playing affliction, but demonology’s tankiness combined with their pet’s damage is far too good to give up currently. People need to stop blaming the players. Who wants to be at a disadvantage and play a poop spec, when you have access to a good spec.
Dying and losing isn’t fun either.
I would be happy if they bring back Metamorphosis playstyle.
I only play demo because of the Felguard. I still think destruction will be the hidden strongest spec for warlock.
Idk about Destro being hidden strong. Chaos Bolt currently hits for like 50k - the same dmg it has been doing in previous expansions when we had like 130k HP, not 400k HP…
My bet is people who wants to try hard or doesn’t reeeaally like destro, will stay demo or aff
Every time I bring up that destruction is sleeper OP I get called stupid. I agree though.
Chaos Bolt is not the strongest skill, i find Dimensional Rift stronger. Then there is v chanel Demon Fire. All of them still deal dmg when you los the lock.
All are to Focused on demo and Affliction, that’s why destruction isn’t counted.
Just found this:
The following spells are no longer usable while silenced: Call Fel Lord, Demonic Strength, Guillotine, Inquisitor’s Gaze, Shadowflame, Soulburn, Soul Strike, Soul Swap, and Soul Tap
I totally understand some spells are not usable… but why the f*** demonic Strength and Soul Strike? Those are pretty abilities they already should be if the gcd and los from pet.
If they won’t change this, then change kill command. It is the same as demonic Strength and Soul Strike. The player is commanding his pet!
Idk, maybe you’re right, I’m no expert. But all the high rated locks I’ve been watching on twitch say Destro is pretty bad. I’m just adopting their opinions because I assume they know better than me.
Some of them still make Destro work at lower (by their standards) rating, but I doubt we will see Destro compete with demo/aff tbh