Since Mages use Arcane to create / cast fire and frost magic
Do rogues use Arcane to manifest Shadow magic in the form of Abilities like Stealth, Shadowstep and Shroud of Concealment?
Blizzard really hasn’t been clear on that. The spell descriptions certainly reference shadow and its magic a lot, but rogues have never been associated with the insanity-inducing drawbacks of the void. There isn’t much clarity on their class lore, so it might just be easiest to imagine that there might be different explanations for different groups using similar skills. Maybe it actually is a form of shadow magic for Forsaken deathstalkers, but actually some Elune-based thing for Kaldorei wardens, and so on…
It doesn’t exactly help that, as usual, we don’t really know how much of their powers are just game mechanics and how much is supposed to be canon. For example, a brelevant plot point in the relatively new Shadows Rising novel is that Mathias Shaw, leader of Stormwind’s rogue organization… is captured as a spy in Zandalar. No stealth, no vanish, no shadowsteps, he is just captured. So when there was an opportunity to show a pov-rogue in action in a canon-source… he was just a guy, not a magic user. MIght be a hint in that. Or not. We certainly all have seen the Saurfang cinematics that use stealth just like it works ingame.
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Watch the cgi animation where Saurfang goes to find Thrall.
Rogue stealth is a kind of magic. I don’t think you can find a more clear example of it being used. Hell, Shaw used it in the Anduin speech cutscene in-game as well.
Shaw being useless in a book vs Shaw in-game being competent is unsurprising though.
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Gameplay-wise all those skills are physical, so technically it’s not magic of any kind, also because they don’t use mana to cast them. In lore it could indeed be considered some lesser form of Shadow (not Void) magic. Even then the stealth of a rogue wouldn’t certainly be the same of the arcane-based invisibility of a mage, as invisibility wouldn’t be able to be detected through normal means without some other kind of counter-magic, while you can still detect a rogue sneaking around normally.
It’s just like Hunters, gameplay wise they don’t use magic to disguise themselves or to heal their pets, but in lore probably most of them know about some lesser form of Nature magic and they can heal their pets thanks to it.
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Or a really, really bright flare.
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Maybe the question should be asked the other way around. Would we classify a master of physical deception, stealth and assassination as a rogue? I think we would. Would we classify someone who uses void magic to conceal himself, step through the shadows and murder people with cursed blades as a rogue? That’s a yes from me as well. Would we see a specialized mage that uses magical invisibility and similar tricks to get close and personal, to steal and to stab people with knifes as a kind of rogue? I would. Fitting the rogue class isn’t about how exactly you do things. It’s about what kinds of things you do. That it’s mostly shadow effects in the game depiction doesn’t really affect that.
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Rogue capital S Stealth is unambiguously magical, yes but it’s fine to treat it as mundane sneakyness since the specs run the gamut from completely nonmagical abilities to superpowers.
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Oh for sure, but I assumed the OP was talking about capital S stealth rather than “I’m being shady and inconspicuous”.
I particularly liked the reskin of Combat to Outlaw. In Legion/BFA it truly felt like each specialization catered to its own niche. You had Assassination and, like its namesake suggests, its fantasy revolved around the traditional assasin, using daggers and poisons. You had Outlaw which offered more of a swashbucklery fantasy with gameplay revolving around speed, one handed weapons and high energy regen, and with a unique side-arm to boot! And finally you had Subtlety which really is the spellcaster rogue. Many of their attacks revolved around magic themes. One of their cooldown even turns their regular attacks into pure shadow damage.
Although I think Shadowlands appeal to nostalgia diminished the rogue in this regard. Outlaw was my favourite spec, and Blizzard removed many unique abilties from Outlaw in order to homogenize the specs. Poisons were given to all rouges without really being incorporated to the gameplay, and Outlaws 100% parry was ripped out of the game and replaced with the standard old evasion.
Ah well. Can’t make a forum post in the story section without including some complaint about Shadowlands.
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I actually always played combat, until they pressed the pirate identity on me that I don’t relate to at all. My idea of the combat rogue was much less… well, of an outlaw. The parts that threw me off are still in SL, by the way, with the pistol stuff and the dice-thing first and foremost. Just not what I had in mind.
I changed to Sub then, and quite liked the shadow magic ninja style there… well, and that got gutted in SL, when rogues got streamlined. Now I barely play rogue at all, except as the leather character for my collection needs.
So I get where you are coming from… “Focus on class instead of spec” was a step backwards. The focus on spec in Legion was a disruptive, but it at least it left room for more different styles.
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I still call it Combat Rogue though.
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From a gameplay perspective I also thought the focus on unique specializations was better. The whole “one class” vision works well in classic because of the open talent trees. You can’t cross-talent in retail. This allowed them to experiment a bit, like creating a melee specialization for hunters. This may have upset old school survival hunters, perhaps you could argue that it was even unfair to them, but I think it was a good change overall.
I would have loved to see them experiment more. One thing I’ve always wanted to see is for either warlocks or mages to get a melee spec. This desire is purely aesthetic. Warlocks and mages gets to equip such cool weapons but they’re never used outside of humoristic purposes (always fun to see a mage go up and clobber an opponent in melee but it’s not going to yield a lot of DPS).
As for the pirate theme – it was a bit on the nose in Legion. It was actually toned down a bit in BFA, which I think was one of the better changes in that expansion.
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Yeah, unfortunately by suddenly adding a lot of lore to the class specs, Blizzard suddenly forced players who’d seen their character/spec as one thing to see it as something else.
Like, sure, combat’s not the best name… But it did have it’s theme! Lightly armoured, agile hand to hand combat, with stealth and ambushing but not much actual magic.
Fury warriors are about big weapons and being a berserker, monks have chi and brews, demon hunters have demonic powers, hunters have pets and/or ranged weapons. Meanwhile Assassination and subtlety are about the more traditional "get in, get the kill/wound everyone, get out style of combat. So Combat combat? It actually did have a niche!
And then Blizzard decided “nope, you’re gonna be outlaws. Enjoy working with literal pirates!”, and I simply couldn’t play the spec I’d been since BC. An outlaw? That is literally the opposite of what I made my rogue for. I don’t want to be a criminal, let alone a pirate! Sure, pirates work for some people, but me? Gimme a ninja style assassin any day, that is why I fell in love with the archetype, and then Wardens.
Blizzard really, really should’ve named Outlaw something like “Skirmish(er)”. Something that encapsulates everything about the outlaw playstyle, but with none of the negative conotations. Lightly armoured melee fighter who darts around in combat, willing to ambush their foes, retreat and strike again, but also get stuck right into it? That sounds about right to me! And sure, it would include pirates, and maybe have some pirate themed weapons/talents, but it wouldn’t be nearly as restrictive!
I’d also throw priests into the mix too. I don’t want my shadow priest to use Old God/void magic, and I don’t want my discipline priest to either! (And don’t even get me started on the obsession with funnelling all religion into The Light…) Unfortunately, rather than developing a wider class identity, in a lot of cases Blizzard ended up enforcing a narrow spec identity, hurting what was ultimately should be a fundamental part of a player’s design freedom.
Yeah, a lot of people have told me this in response to my complaints about the spec… But unfortunately the stigma of “Sewer pirate” spec still lingers too hard in my memory, especially given the name
As far as I know the stealth ability for us is more of a deception, kind of an illusion that helps us to move around unnoticed.
you keep forgetting about me!
However…
finally, appreciation!
Being a sub rogue is definitely something that dabbles with darker magic. Shadow step shows us perfectly and most of our abilities as well, which I don’t mind. Shady, but it’s a nice touch! I actually enjoy being a sub rogue now than being one in BC when I started the game. I hated being a combat rogue just to be able to do some decent dps (never been a pro), but being able to hop around is just pure happiness!
My rogue is a neutral lady too, who helps whoever needs it but doesn’t kill mindlessly or accepts contracts of murdering people. Doesn’t mind money, but she’s more of an adventurous soul than a murderer
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Hah, yeah, as much as I miss combat, after being forced to go sub for SL (because launch assassination was basically unplayable), it’ll be hard to go back from having two shadowstep charges. Hell, when I first started in BC I went (a very bad version of) sub for levelling because “Ooh, shadowstep, it’s just like Blink!”
I don’t miss it at all 
mostly because this “elegant” style that the sub gives it suits more to my character than any other specs from rogues 
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