This is my little nostalgic trip trough a rogue specs - then and now. I’m curious if you share some of my memories or points of view. Feel free to share your toughts on the topic here, whatever they are. Disclaimer: I’m not a native english speaker.
Outlaw
I’ve always seen Combat as a sneaky, more tricky version of a warrior. Wearing leather instead of plate Combat sacrifise his durability gaining instead more speed and agility.
Mechanicallly Combat Rogue core has been truck-like white weapon damage plus poison dmg as a bonus. As I remember it was always a risky thing to allow Combat rogue roam freely on the battlefield because of his dangerous sustained damage.
As I remember it I didn’t like to spend much points in Combat tree, since his slow pacing style didn’t suite me. But often it was necessity to give some poitns there, especially to achieve minimum hit points rating or to improve currently wielded weapon.
Killing Spree ability was some refreshment for me and it was a reason for me to experiment with this spec.
Now from two expansions we have a pirate rogue. I really don’t quite understand why. If I want to be pirate, I’d take a proper mog - on any spec I want. But here it is.
What I like with Outlaw it is a Grappling Hook ability, wich can suite also a Combat fantasy. I’m not a fan of Roll the Bones. What I wish to hear is an old sound of Sinister Strike. The recent one sound wierd when I fight with other weapon than a sword. And an old sound of Ambush would also be quite nice.
Assassination
I would say of all three rogue spec Sin is the most close to it’s original core, general speaking. Strong poison dmg? Checked. Damage over time? Checked. Mutilate, iconic ability? Checked. Big crits? Any Assassination user can confirm that?
If it was “right” to add at some point bleed damage taken from Sub spec? Depend on who you ask. But bleed is also a dot, so no offense taken.
I experimented long ago (Wotlk?) with Sin build and a little during Legion Exp. I remember that suprise and satisfaction in BGs (after Combat disappointment) when even plate wearer’s HP was melting when nature damage struck him/her hard
Subtlety
The core of a Sub has always been a burst dmg spec attacking from nowhere.
The core here is burst and all the things to prepare and buff Sub for it - mostly Preparation, Premeditaion, Shadow Dance and from some point Find Weakness.
Until WoD Exp the main part of a Sub indentity were also the abilities based on bleeds: Rupture, Hemorrhage and Sanguinary Veins wich were abandon completely in Legion Exp to make a Sub only a shadow focused spec and from mechanically point of view, leaved the spec only with burst abilities, without a one dot.
I think Sub right now is a more or less successful and, for sure, controversial spec. It is a curious effect of an approach devs muscle with from the moment they’ve decided it can’t be only a pure PvP spec.
Liked or not, a more shadow based abilities are here to make Sub core more unique. From the mechanic point of view I think devs are trying to make Sub viable in PvE by making an impossible thing - to make a sustained dmg spec from a pure bursty core of a Sub. The results are what we seeing now. A quite strange, unique spec with a lack of constant dmg between Shadow Dance cooldowns.
What I want since Legion is the freedom I had playing Sub in the past. I want play again, like Combat/Outlaw, whatever weapon I want, and like Sin had his poisons, Sub had his bleeds and that quick Hemorrhage combo gainer I’ve always want to come back.
Also I’m in the #BringGougeBackAndOldAmbush team as well
Same thing happened to Affliction Warlocks, Frost Mages and Unholy DKs. Devs try to make specs that were iconic for PvP to work well in PvE. What’s the effect? Affliction is bis for PvE but it’s 14 button opener dps spec that only tryhards enjoy while in PvP it just feels bad to play. Frost mage that was burst spec based on shatter suddenly became sustain damage dampening spec and Unholy DK from the unique spec based on healing reduction became weird multi dotting spec that is good in M+ but in PvP it’s a meme.
I’d say Outlaw is pretty on point in terms of fantasy; Grappling hook was a great addition as well as the dash talent at lv 50
Seems rather strange than the spec that’s designed around staying in the fight, hitting things and getting hit has a health pool thinner than a single-file toilet paper, a deffensive toolkit that isn’t really enough to support a sustained encounter and a non-existent burst potential outside of -REALLY- speciffic builds.
Used to have dencent sustain and the ability to deal with armour using a finisher, but that’s gone now.
If only outlaw had anything that let it stay in the fight and not immediately melt from a warrior looking into their general direction. Used to have an armour bonus, but that’s also gone now;
The fact that a 2 min cd killing spree (Which can be completely stopped with any kind of stun/fear/incap/root effect)deals less damage than a regular starsurge is just adding insult to the injury.
Yeah, these abilities are fun to me and fit the “stand toe to toe with the enemy” idea too.
I remember Combat Readiness introduced in Cata I guess, plus Recuperate were something I welcomed dearly. Until Cata rogue were not designed to stay longer on target. Sin had poisons and dots, Sub had bleeds and burst/stun lock and Combat… well
It is known that rogue without a healer in Arenas is… how to put it in words… very demanding to survive and win comparing to other leather classes and plate wearers. It is not a simple class in the first place. It reminds me of nova days Survival hunter - many buttons to press to get similiar result demon hunter does with ease.
The biggest issue was buffs to Healers, both in their Healing specs and their Hybrid specs. The result was multiple expansion of double-caster dominating arena at high ratings and in tournaments. Instead of nerfing (because people don’t like that) they buffed melee. A LOT. And the Arms race continued
WOTLK was the perfect microcosm of that. They added so many iconic, core class mechanics and spells that, to this day, remain the same. They also, to this day, should never have been added in the first place as the knock on effect has lead to other spells/abilities being added to counter them, Ad Nauseum.
It is known that rogue without a healer in Arenas is… how to put it in words… very demanding to survive and win comparing to other leather classes and plate wearers. It is not a simple class in the first place. It reminds me of nova days Survival hunter - many buttons to press to get similiar result demon hunter does with ease.
Rogue self healing is crazy right now. Soothing Darkness combine with Recuperator and Crimson Vial being baseline… honestly it’s dumb. But it’s still not as strong as instant asting 30-50% of your HP, which most Hybrid classes can do.
Yeah, that would be too much. It would be cool tought, if I could choose between one of the two: a strong hot for a few seconds for rogue to get that kill or simply to survive once every 2 or 3 min or, as it is now, a little healing every 30 sec - depends on scenario.
I’m a bit confused because in Wrath hybrid healing was on the same level or even harder. I’m not sure if you remember it correctly but teams with Ele or Shadow instead of healer could work.
The difference was that overall sustain damage was higher because there were less CDs. Current design makes it either dampen meta like BFA or one shots like now.
The last 2 seasons of WoTLK was absolutely brutal for melee. Hybrid classes were given too many defensives and mitigation abilities without having any reduction in healing. Haste scaling was utterly ludicrous meaning casted CC was hard to interrupt and mages/Ele shamans would cast 2 spells before the first one had even landed its damage.
True but also 1 Healing Wave from Enha topped someone. That was my point.
For a number of expansion, hybrid healing has been nerfed. This expansion though, it’s better than a healer.
I played Resto Shaman at 190ilvl with my warrior friend and died constantly to everything. I switched to Enhancement and chose nothing but healing conduits and my healing was better than resto, my damage was better, and I buffed my warrior partner with Windfury.
The lack of mana was the only thing that stopped enhancement being a better healer overall.
There’s also the benefit that having a double DPS team means you never start at 20% dampening against any comp, so you are even stronger in healer+dps matchups than if you played a healer.
Until you get good gear… Resto isn’t worth playing.
Resto overall doesn’t have good healing and it only works with tanky partners or these who can offheal. To succeed with R Shaman in 2s many people play Earth Elemental lego for more pressure.
The problem Outlaw has in PvP is that in PvE it’s frontline standing meele that cleaves with Blade Flurry but it’s not going to happen in PvP because with leather armor it’s going to be outcleaved. It also only deals physical damage so it can’t kill heavy armor targets: Warriors, Paladins, DKs, Druids in Bear form Resto and Elemental Shamans. The main reason behind that is Plunder Armor being nerfed to the ground.
The other thing that made Outlaw once great in PvP was Dreadblades + True Bearing combination. Right now it’s not the case since Roll the Bones is 45 sec cd and you cannot reroll buffs. If they made True Bearing guaranteed and other buffes being rolled Outlaw would be H Priest of DPS specs being based on resetting cds.
I know what you stand for - from flavour point of view Outlaw is nicely designed but in terms of mechanics this spec is huge mess and Blizzard seems not to have an idea for how to fix it.
