Rogues HAVE to be nerfed

PVP Battlegrounds
1

This is a rant.

Do NOT expect a civil, tolerable, reasonable, normal, easy-to-digest post.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I don’t see HOW these rogues even came about, WHO is responsible for this, but it’s like the most annoying thing in any game EVER.

Now, I have played MANY games in my time. You could say it’s SO many, it’s unquantifiable, so it’s A LOT. All kinds of games, from all kinds of very old, very new and systems inbetween.

There have been very flawed games, flawed game mechanics in many games, really annoying, frustrating deaths, I have certainly raged a lot about many games.

But nothing, absolutely NOTHING, during the decades of gameplay, comes even CLOSE to being as broken, flawed, irritating, annoying, enraging, infuriating and COMPLETELY UNFAIR to the player as rogues in WoW.

(We just have a BG with FOUR (4) rogues! You can’t even IMAGINE how frustratingly infuriating and annoying it was, and how much FLAMING it caused in the chat! I would’ve been helplessly ganked in the end by one rogue (or 2, 3 or 4), had the BG not ended already - they won 3-0, OF COURSE)

It’s weird, how in ONE hand, they completely dominate you, especially with multiple (but even just one). They arcane lock me, they ‘vision obstructed’ if I try to shoot something, then they switch to ‘cloak’, so I MISS when I finally CAn shoot, then they stun, sap, ALL THE WHILE draining my HP VERY quickly.

I am lucky if I can hit ONE arcane barrage, very lucky if I can add an arcane explosion to that (only IMMEDIATE spells can be cast, because you’re locked out if you try anything longer, and there’s just no time to cast anything anyway before you’re either dead or the rogues vanish).

You can guess how much damage it does to them - NONE.

But in the OTHER hand, you are NOT allowed to say any of this out loud, complain about them, curse them, or tell how much you HATE, ABSOLUTELY HATE them OP bastards.

Anyway, what I can’t understand is, HOW did this pass any kind of gameplay test? Who was the ganked arcane mage, who said “Yes, THIS is what I want from a game, not being able to do anything and being quickly stunganked - perfect, just put that in the game, no need for any nerfs!”

WHO was that playtester?!

What kind of sense does it make that a class THIS OP, ALSO can’t be killed? I mean, they can take SO much damage even when they’re NOT using their COMPLETELY OVERPOWERED TRICKS that prevent them from being shot at all.

They just won’t die, ever. It’s a very rare thing to see a rogue die, and it’s usually a BIG group that chases the OVERLY-FAST rogue all over the place and by happenstance land enough hits to finally kill it before it can vanish and heal.

I don’t friggin’ understand why something like this is allowed. It’s like allowing some players to use cheats, while others can’t. Holy cow is this broken!

They have a counter for EVERYTHING you do.

You can’t damage them even if they let you freecast. They heal like crazy, which should only be a ‘healer’ ability. They run faster than you - in fact, SUPERfast!, they can teleport to your buttocks from VERY far away, they can SAP you from WAY out of the range of any AoE you can muster (arcane explosion is a BAD JOKE - I’ve been sapped in the MIDDLE of doing arcane explosion, just when the explosion was at its widest - and I still couldn’t see the rogue at all, so thanks a lot for THAT).

In addition to ALL that, they can stealth multiple times EVEN if you manage to bring them out of stealth. So they can always escape any fight they wish, they can always RESET the fight, they can always just choose the best possible opportunity. They can do so much damage in their overly-long stunchain, that you have basically NO chance, unless you press some key one microsecond faster than they use their stun again, and even then you bought yourself maybe 0.5 seconds to DO something ‘meaningful’, until they sap/stun/blind/disorient you again, and …

They have ALL the advantages, and no disadvantages. WHATEVER the situation, whether flag carrying, escaping someone, catching/stalking someone, controlling the situation by CC… they win every time. Easily. No skill required.

Two rogues at you is the MOST irritating, the most annoying thing that can happen, because a) it’s UNFAIR, b) it takes your AGENCY away - you can’t DO anything, you’re like infant suddenly, completely ímpotent and helpless, and this is not the feeling you want from a BATTLE GAME, god damnit! c) There is no solution to it, so you get traumatized and start fearing the sap, and when it happens, you get ulcers d) Your class, whatever it may be, has absolutely NO tools against ANYTHING a rogue does. DH has ‘Spectral Sight’, which can help if you HAPPEN to use it at the right time, AND happen to be able to discern the slight red dot somewhere that might move a bit - why can’t it AT LEAST make rogues always completely bright red, like it does to everything else, so you can always fully see the stealthed players? Sometimes the effect is SO subtle, you don’t even see it (especially if a bit colorblind), but your only chance is to keep trying to “target+throw cleave”-combo constantly.

Either every class should be given SOME kind of ‘rogue escape’-button, or rogues should be

…___S____E____R____I____O____U____S____L____Y____ NERFED!

The most puzzling thing is Blizz’s motivation. WHY does it not nerf it? Why didn’t it nerf it years ago already? Why did it let a certain guy’s son playing rogue AFFECT the whole thing? Do ALL BG players have to suffer from blizz’s weird decision to celebrate nepotism (or something like it anyway)?

Why didn’t blizz nerf rogues AT LEAST in patch 8.1?

Why the !@%#* is this allowed? There must be 8 billion better ways to implement this kind of class, and I am sure most players here have some kind of good ideas about it.

How about my (probably crappy, but still better than status quo) ideas? :

  • If you are attacked by more than 1 rogue, you gain partial immunity to everything they do, so you can AT LEAST handle the situation to some extent (the same way you could with two other classes)

  • Rogue ESCAPE-button that puts you out of Rogue’s range, and blocks you for 30 seconds from it being able to see you in any way or target you (could have big-ish cooldown)

  • Buff / ability that lets you shoot through cloak / smoke bomb or even if they just vanish in the middle of a bladestorm

  • STOP them from being able to vanish IN THE MIDDLE OF A @!"*%#" bladestorm!!

  • Damage should remove their vanishing ability for some time

  • Remove the ability to RE-vanish - only ONE vanishing per customer, so the DH’s spectral sight could actually be useful. It’s useless, when you get the cooldown, but rogue can just re-stealth immediately.

  • NERF rogues seriously, so they’re like any other class - maybe annoying sometimes, but can be killed (Paladins, for example, are sometimes incredibly OP due to their bubbles, shields, instant 100% HP, etc. so it’s useless to try to kill them and they can do SO MUCH during that stuff, while you can’t do anything back, and some warriors hit way too hard, priests have a plethora of OP from ‘not being able to be killed’ to ‘superior CC’ to ‘dispersion-type escapes’ to ‘mind control spam’)

  • By sacrificing 38% of your health, you can teleport rogue to a random location in the BG, that’s always at least ‘very far’ away from you

It’s pretty easy to come up with all kinds of ideas - then these ideas could be implemented, tested, and tweaked, until they work perfectly. They can be modified, molded, added to, removed from…

Look, it can be a FUN PROJECT to try to figure out how to make rogues a ‘normal’ class that can be escaped, etc. This should be done together with figuring out how to make CC fair and satisfying, instead of the HORROR-nightmare it currently is with all those chains and dots.

This game could probably be fixed by a handful of players guiding some devs and programmers for a couple of weeks, to a very paradisic levels. But I guess there’s no money in it.

Sigh.

So we have to suffer from this pain. I just want to say one more thing:

GOD DAMN ROGUES AND GOD DAMN BLIZZARD FOR ALLOWING THEM TO BE SO OP!!

Thank you.

7 Likes
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Yep. And Retri loladins too! There are ridiculus!

1 Like
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tldr:

Arcane mage fights two or more rogues at the same time, decides they are op.
Cherry on top, arcane mage doesn’t understand his own class. Or others.

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wow your walls of text keep critting me for 100% hp, good job.

1 Like
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Nobody loves us :disappointed_relieved: I will go gank some lowbies to feel better :sunny:

Edit: Demon Hunters OP WAHHH, THEY CAN SEE ME THROUGH STEALTH AND PREVENT ME FROM GANKING LOWBIES BLIZZARD NERF WAAAAAHHHH. REEEEEEEEE.

1 Like
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Current problem with rogues…blizzard has gave them everything.
Burts damage - check.
Sustain damage - check.
CC - check.
Antimagic defence - check.
Antimelee defence - check.
Escape spells - check.
Mobility - check.
Gap closers - check.
Heals - check.

With current design, i as warlock should chose between two shields and sprint, while rogues have baseline crimson vial, vanish and cloack of shadows.
Before legion rogues had a balanced spell toolkit, you guys had all that i listed above, exept reliable self heals, and this was a deal breaker, it forced rogues to play safe. Now, they just sit on you, and in first sign of their defeat they just pop up CoS and Vanish, use their crimson vial, and return in combat in seconds or just leave combat without givin a thing.
You have a perfectly flawless toolkit that only limited by straightness of your hands.
I as warlock is limited by damn to may factors, and unlike rogues i was pruned signigficantly, i has lost over 15 spells since MoP, and didn’t get anything in return.
If rogues was designed as warlocks, they would have crimson vial, vanish and CoS as talents in same talent row.

10 Likes
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Warlocks complaining about Rogues in the current meta game ? How refreshing.

4 Likes
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I want to try whatever you’ve been smoking.

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So, nerf rogue by 50% so you can handle 2 rogues at once?

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I would use the same words… instead of rogue put DH and their ridicilous speed / jumping abilities :stuck_out_tongue: Is it normal if pvp tank the only option is DH? :stuck_out_tongue:

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Nah he just decided it’s not normal hr can’t 2vs1 melee with endless blinks so now that he has found a couple melees that can negate the blinks with stuns he’s being salty. Hello, real world here, the game isn’t designed so you win several vs you on the same skill level, ans sometimes even your class doesn’t win the 1vs1. Okay a bg with 6-7 rogues is annoying for a mage who can’t juke kicks, but it’s the same as a bg with 6 mm who oneshot everyone, rogues included, or 6 uh dks who are unkillable killing machines, or 6 boomkins so your whole team dies to 14 dots on everyone at all times and instant starsurge nuking on your healer while they can remove all slows and roots, or an army of dh to disrupt even stealth based opener on top of having 100% uptime on every enemy caster and we can go on with many classes. Rabdom bgs are a total mess and if you play solo/not well/not with the brain/not with an organized team a lot of class stacking ends you.

Do you see us crying that Arcane Mages, or Mages, should be heavily nerfed because they have two blinks while most melee classes can connect only two times, causing connect blink connect blink ciao melee, and arcane has two more ? Well no, no one asks for that because all in all Mages aren’t what makes pvp bad at the moment. Rogues aren’t the issue either. There are currently classes with more damage than rogues, more survivability, more uptime and that are more disruptive. If you have a harder time against a decent rogue as arcane than against a decent uh dk for instance I’m sorry but it’s a you issue not a game issue. If you get locked on arcane because you channel your missile fully just learn the game and cancel the channel to bait kicks so you still have your blinks usable and the rest of your kit and maybe you’ll live. But ofc when you get locked on cd you sie that’s normal.

Again, if you think nothing comes close to rogue in terms of damage and disruptivity you need to get better at fighting rogues.

I’m sorry for what follows, but rogues have been the most hated class in wow history, by bad players. Bad players can’t handle a surprise opener from stealth, can’t handle the pressure of something suddenly happening to them and needing good reaction time and good decisions in the actions they make. The solution is get better and that’s it, really. Panic panic panic. When you get opened on you can’t move or cast because silence or stun, so just chill, look at your cds, look around you, think about what you need to do. Frost nova > blink will lock down any rogues that you have on you for instance, unless they blow a TWO MINUTES COOLDOWN. Don’t panic double blink because if they catch you you die. One at a time. Priority is keeping the guy slowed with chrono shift, again he can’t remove it without a cooldown, think damage when you’re far enough, slowing him far from you is more important than try harding arcane missiles to get locked. Examples. I see so many players panicking in bgs when I’m on rogue it’s insane. When I’m on mage or priest I get opened okay so what I know what the rogue can do, when the stun is over I act accordingly and it’s fine.

Typos might be everywhere inside this post.

1 Like
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Arathi Basin.

At first, I am far away, I am able to stop the rogue from capping, using totem to stun it, etc. but can’t push it off before it vanishes.

Horde rogues of course ALWAYS have at least 229k HP, sigh.

Anyway, then someone comes to help me, there’s nothing happening, and IMMEDIATELY when the priest uses glider to jump to BS, I get SAPPED. 7-seconds SAP right next to flag (I wasn’t prepared for the priest leaving OR the rogue still being there, so I happened to be near the flag).

Rogue caps the flag, vanishes. When the SAP ends, ANOTHER 3-second SAP immediately. CAn’t do a damn thing, horde has the flag, then when the sap ends, suddenly 5 horde around me shooting and CCing me - I try to glide, warlock STOPS the glider (THIS should not be possible - glider should be immune to CC, after all, it’s the ONLY escape usually), I fall to my death.

WHAT THE F? HOw does blizz not nerf this? What kind of gameplay is this, when I spend 20 the worst seconds in my life in completely helpless state?

This is supposed to be a game. You are supposed to be able to PLAY, not just sit in stun.

Nerf the god damn rogues already!

3 Likes
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Its not your problem also , I have seen more druid tank on rated battlegrounds than demon hunters this season. Slowly next season or after 2 seasons they will have no use in pvp anymore. In legion they were insane. Now they have huge nerf.

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Arcane has greater invis you can disappear just like rogues do…

Or go frost to keep them off you and annoy them.

Why you walking off alone when there’s 4 rogues in your bg? Especially as a mage, we are not a good solo pvp class. We are the class that hides behind a big tauren and does big damage hoping no one notices.

You’ve posted from a dh. Rogues hate dhs. They can see them with there spectral stuff.

If none of this helps… if you can’t beat them join them.

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while OP has 843 best personal rating EVER still making balance posts :slight_smile: what a trash

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Earth grab into hex into lasso and well played you just cc’ed a rogue for 21s. Nerf shamans ? Don’t be ridiculous.

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