Rogues in 1vs1 Duels

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
1

Hello, lets go thru the following.

first of all there has never been a rogue winning a classic Duel tournament.
In Classic wow at 2019 the winner was Venruki on their first tournament at level 30.
Mage Class.

Second tournament at level 60 the winner was Snutz. Warlock Class

then lets go over to hardcore tournament yet again the winner was snutz. Warlock Class

Then there’s been some Sod tournaments.
the last one that was hosted Hozito Won it Shadowpriest.

So yes now that we have knowledge over this.

lets talk over some abilities we have gotten in Season of Discovery.

  1. Dispersion. a 2 minutes cooldown rune.
    this rune reduces damage taken by 90% for 6 seconds and allows you to regenerate 36% mana thruout dispersion duration.

This Rune on top of the fact that shadow priests have 15% physical damage reduction and can shield themselves. it makes shadowpriest a very good counter against physical dps.
and they are very good on par against caster players.

  1. Warlock MasterChanneler.
    Your Drain Life is no longer channeled, lasts 15 sec with a 15 sec cooldown, costs 100% more mana, and heals you for 50% more each time it deals damage.

This rune is ridiculus. most warlocks equals death when you face them.
unless you are using a shadow protection potion. We are now talking about fair 1vs1 duels. Where the other player knows they are facing a rogue.
i still don’t understand why this rune is both allowed for pvp and pve.
When Scuffed AF Redirect for rogues isn’t allowed in pve and pvp.
Because the Idea behind this rune is to allow warlocks to have a better way to get more health back if needed when they are tanking.

There’s also another rune called metamorphis, this rune increases warlocks armor by 600% and reduces chance to be critically hit by 6% and some other modifiers that we do not care about. This rune and master channeler makes warlocks unkillable against melee dps.

Alright now lets go over to retribution paladin last bane of existence class for rogues.

They have a lot of physical mitigation.
they have shield equiped before your, opener. so that they have 1,5-2k more armor.
which reduces the physical damage they take.
after opener is over, they now can repetence you and heal up 35-50% of the damage you did to them.

if you trinket the repetence, you’ll get a hammer of justice.
where they’ll do a melee swing >crusader strike> divine storm.
in some cases you’re dead here.

All other classes except these three, Rogue stand a very fair chance against winning.

My suggestions would be too do the following.

  1. let rogues get cloak of shadow
  2. let rogues get 50% reduce healing wounds.

This way rogues will be in a very fair spot in 1versus1 dueling tournaments.

i’d almost argue that we should have reccuperate in the game but that’d steep the game towards rogues way too much.

But in the current scenario.

Rogues are only Stomping noobs in unfair 1vs1 fights.
Where enemy has no cds or isn’t aware a rogue is going to attack them.

also you are very often reliant on using thistle tea which is a 5 minutes cooldown that restores 100 energy to the rogue to kill players.

8 Likes
2

As much as I would love to see them balance every game mode fully for all types of players, they struggle enough with PVE and normal PVP balancing, without also having to worry about more niche playstyles such as 1v1 tournaments too :frowning:

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Agree, waiting on Wavé’s braindead comment on this.

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4

Speaking of said tournament, which I btw did not view myself, how many shamans - the most OP class of all - were there in the finals? Or the semi finals? Or the quarter finals? Would you happen to know how many shaman Ws there were in total?

2 Likes
5

Problem is that if some class is not even close winning 1v1 against 4 meta classes that are overpopulated in every BG and now STV, those weaker classes have no chance to enjoy the game in PvP, because if you open a 1v1 fight, it in 5 seconds turns into a 2v1 and you lost all your chances to win the fight (but you might win the war)

6

its actually quite shocking that u think rogue has it hard in sod… theyre even op only with their classic kit.

4 Likes
7

Until you actually learn your class, you have the right to remain silent.
You pick talents that literally hinder your ability to perform well in PvP and that is the beginning of your struggles. Not to mention that cursed video of your AB PoV, struggles against classes where every rogue (minus you) would win against and etc.

During dispersion priests can’t cast anything, the fact you wouldn’t bother blinding or gauging a priest explains why you struggle against priests.

The fact you attempt fighting high armor classes as a rogue is probably the most insane read I’ve had from a bad rogue player in a while.

can’t equip stuff when stunned, also most rets dont use shield. even then i would just bubble and dispose of rogue trash that way, like it is always meant to be.

rogues dont need either imp wound or CoS, most rogues on the forums just need to git gud. easiest pvp class if you understand their mechanics.

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they are in a very bad spot in 1vs1 tournaments which is all i ever care about.

9

are we ignoring the fact that in the otk tourney the 2 rogues were fighting eachother, leaving only one to advance who then lost due to a dc, making the finals lock into classic enhance shaman, which is a free win?

10

The thing with the rogues is if you know what is coming you can counter them easy, that is the reason why on tournaments they can’t do well, or at least there is no room for mistakes. That is why bad players will always tell you rogue is OP class and dwarf paladin will agree with them, yet he won’t ever press stoneform vs rogue.
On the topic, we are still at level 40. I bet rogues will get cloak of shadow or some other interesting thing, we still have to see, but it won’t happen in this phase.

1 Like
11

i don’t think you are understanding my post at all.
you say most retripaladins don’t wear a shield.
this is not about world pvp,
this is about 1vs1 duel tournaments. Where players know what Class, Race and Spec the opponent is playing and that they can prepare, to have the highest success chance of winning.

Cough Cough. Blind priest dispersion when they are dwarf where they just press Stoneform cough cough.

but idk man maybe i am a noob and you’re 30 times SSSS rank pvp player. this is my statement over this game by being a 2,6-2,8k rated arena player thruout tbc and wrath of the lich king.
i’d say i am between 3-5% of top pvp players out here.

Meanwhile the game changes somewhat between classic, tbc, Wotlk and Sod.
A lot of the game mechanics are still the same(exception being some ccs lasting for 40± seconds and has a higher chance of heartbeating the longer the CC prolongs).
allthou faster globals in wotlk.

Rogues need the following. To be a S tier pvp class in 1versus1 duels

  1. cloak of shadow
  2. 50% reduce healing wounds.
1 Like
12

Issue with Rogues is what its always been in “classic vanilla” Bad players play them. Why ? Because they have an insane toolkit and thus counter everything, aka they are insanely overpowered.

Now SoD is not Classic Vanilla. Many classes finally have options outside of raising your hands off your keyboard.

Most Rogue enjoyers in SoD thought it was going to be another round of Vanilla, and all you had to do was open, second stun, gauge, blind, reset. Do it again if need be, and literally no one can survive.

Omg ! Its a shock ! Thats not the case, so now the bad Rogues dont really know what to do.

I dont say this often, but if you are complaining as a Rogue ? It really is a l2p issue. People here talking about tournaments… as if watching top players will have literally any effect on you.

1 Like
13

Hard agree its so painful watching the only viable melee outside of of Shaman in PvP complain having it hard. At least as a Rogue you can reach casters and interact. Melee state for everyone else is we die before we even reach them. Rogues have it good in PvP and will only ever get PvE buffed, not there PvP talents.

2 Likes
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the fact is that there still hasn’t been a single rogue(most rogue players in these tournaments have been multi rank 1 players in other expansions) in either Classic wow>HCwow>Sod winning a tournament.
and that’s due to Class Balance issues.

hmm how to explain this(if you have a pillar to line of sight around) Rogue wins versus everything very easily, because they can reset, thru crippling slows.
but since majority of the duel tournaments never happens nearby places to line of sight.

the game isn’t as ‘‘Rogue favorable anymore’’ as people might think it is.

Lets say rogue versus dwarf shadowpriest.
you cheapshot, Muti>,Gouge, Kidney.
Dispersion you blind it. Stoneform,
gets globals to put down dots and homonculus and redo a shield.
then you can finally redo a blind now.

now you have too kill 3 pets and also time a sap on priest inbetween auto attacks from three pets and damage over time abilities. if you’re unlucky here you get auto attacked and can’t land the sap, Kill the remaining pets.
then eat up since you are at 5-20% hp.(priest is still sitting at a good 85% hp)
Pray that sap doesn’t get heartbeat.
Bad rogue players will definetly not understand how to do this.

Versus demon warlocks you really stand no chance since you can’t blind sap reset.
except playing assa spec and deadly brew, playing this spec gives you horrible mobility.
and you’ll be open up by other rogues and feral druids all the time.

Retribution paladins.

you chunk off maybe a good 15-25% hp in a opener against them.
they repetence you heal up 20-35% of the damage you do.
then you trinket their hoj, Blind Stoneform.
then evasion try to force bubble. when bubble out.
you get another chance, but this time they got trinket for your blind.
could also use their 1 hour cooldown lay on hands.
here you need to get another reset somehow.
then this reset they can bop the stuns.
and finally here you can go for the kill.
but a lot of times, retri paladin will be in favour versus rogues.

like we need 50% reduce healing on wound poison not this -375 reduce healing.
and either cloak of shadows or a physical blind.

also lets not mention shadowstep which has never ever been on globalcooldown in any version of worldofwarcraft.
you can’t even shadowstep on top of elevated platforms.
so doing cool shenaigans like jumping off warsong gulch roof with flag and shadowstep a enemy player doesn’t work either.

Last but least it doesn’t feel as good in the soul knowing that.
Priest got their insane WOTLK toolkit.
meanwhile rogues got a scuffed version of shadowstep and weirdass tanking runes that nobody really wanted.

15

hello man I think the same as you about the pvp of season of discovery and I have put a post where I talk about this. I think all the classes do a lot of damage compared to the life they have at these levels. I dont know what you can think about this

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Again, I hear you. But tournament play does not matter, what 0.1% of players do reflects 100% in no way to what you can do, or what you should expect others to achieve.

There can be zero Rogues or 100 Rogues in tournaments, 1v1 should not matter to you, mainly because Rogues have zero issues on that front vs 9/10 of the specs in the game. The only place you have “problems” is in BGs, and by problems I mean you cant steamroll everything.

On top, your examples are extreme. “Dwarf Paladin with LoH” ok… so you lose once every hour, and ? Thats broken ? Dwarf SP a lot less extreme, but its 1 race/class combo out of… how many ? nearly all can be Priest, hardly a problem. As I said, you are using very extreme cases to validate losing, if anything you are doing the opposite of what you want, you are proving why Rogues actually dont have pvp issues.

Also, just gonna leave it out there, Gauge is your friend. The actual levels of op this ability has, and yet somehow all Rogues seem to have forgotten that they have a 6sec cc on a 10sec cd.

1 Like
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Why does exactly rogue need to be S tier pvp class?

Why can’t other classes be the S tier class?

Rogue has been the S tier class since the beginning of time

1 Like
18

My talents? xD your talents you posted are 1:1 same except I trade 40% crit on next attack for 20 sec for +10% all the time. You know that those 40% does not trigger if you dont get killing blow right? What does it help if that buff is down? nothing, exactly.

Are you judging on one video? I did another one the same way as “wow influencers (ehm. streamers)” do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRPrzF4MbQA

Judging by this video rogue should be nerfed right? Literally, any class would kill them just like I did.

How about this video I just made, where my targets use some braincells and not wear pajamas while also using their toolkit properly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gPR0ZWQLxM I have like 30 short recordings like this, much more than my first video where I snipe noobs.

I also have one more video about that same balance druid, where we 3 attack him and he happily tanks us for an eternity, ofc he dies because it’s 1v3 but still. Proof that druids that complain about having no DMG and lack tankiness just cannot play the class.

See how much proper buffs, runes, and items on squishy classes make a difference in rogues dmg output?

So again, and again, not a rogue or mutilate issue but other people’s skill issue.

Streamers sniping noobs is not a “rogue is OP”. It’s just hard for people to admit that they s[before it gets edited by moderator]ck with their class.

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The reason why rogues never won a 1v1 tournament is because mages and warlocks have an advantage over them at the extremely high-skill bracket, which has nothing to do with the actual players’ experience, where rogues totally dominate even in SoD

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… fair 1v1? Against a rogue? Hahahaha! Good one.
So you cant stunlock every class from 100 to 0. Good.